Yeah? But which language gets the job and earns the bucks
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Wow... This whole thread sounds scarily like the C++ vs. VB debates from a few years back. With VB replaced by C#. What's scary is the number of people who've apparently switched sides... :suss:
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
Shog9 wrote: What's scary is the number of people who've apparently switched sides... Nah. As far as I can see, the "converts" were using C++ for wrong purpose anyway (form based, business data-centric apps). They should have switched to VB long time ago. VB6 is perfect for this kind of development, IMHO better than .NET.
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Does C++/CLI have the C# equivalent of structs? Or are structs just normal C++ classes (without the ref keyword)? Regards Senthil _____________________________ My Blog | My Articles | WinMacro
Equivalent of C#
structisvalue class. Of course, you can usestructin place ofclassjust like in Standard C++, with the same meaning: the default access would be public rather than private.
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote: Because the federal government has not fully adopted C#, Which federal government are you talking about? The U.S. one? That's hardly relevant in the global scheme of things is it? The rest of the world is moving on, if the U.S. govt want's win32 apps they can build them themselves (which I'm sure they do anyway). So far no one has given any credible reason why MC++ should even exist. It's a product in search of a market which is always a bad sign. I understand people using c++ for win32 apps etc, but for .net apps? That's just completely pointless.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: So far no one has given any credible reason why MC++ should even exist. Ever use the
#importextension in VC++? That's the one that takes a good deal of the drudgery out of using COM from C++, by automatically generating wrapper classes for you. Sure, if your app is going to spend most of its time interacting with various pre-written COM objects, you're probably better off using VB6 or some other language intended to make this more or less seemless... but, for that 1% of your C++ app that benefits from using some COM stuff,#importrocks. IMHO, that's why MC++ is important. It's the new#import.You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote: Because the federal government has not fully adopted C#, Which federal government are you talking about? The U.S. one? That's hardly relevant in the global scheme of things is it? The rest of the world is moving on, if the U.S. govt want's win32 apps they can build them themselves (which I'm sure they do anyway). So far no one has given any credible reason why MC++ should even exist. It's a product in search of a market which is always a bad sign. I understand people using c++ for win32 apps etc, but for .net apps? That's just completely pointless.
"A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one."
John Cardinal wrote: So far no one has given any credible reason why MC++ should even exist. It's a product in search of a market which is always a bad sign. I understand people using c++ for win32 apps etc, but for .net apps? That's just completely pointless. The military has a contract with microsoft. Yes it is only the US, but with a US based corporation a contract with the military carries a bit more weight. Plus there is other verbage in it about the military buying only microsoft products whereever competitive products exist, etc. So it has more worth than just MC++. I think it is running out soon, so you never know what incentives will be dangled in front of whom. I'll be programing C# tomorrow if the general tells me so. But as long as he says C++, that is what it will be too. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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In a thread ( http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?forumid=1159&select=1121633&fr=51#xx1121181xx[^] ) started by Nish some suggests that C# is dead. Yeah? But which language are the majority of employers looking for when hunting for .Net developers. Bet it is C# and VB.Net and not C++. In fact, reading one head hunter's pamplet on salaries C++ is not even mentioned for .Net developers and the section on C++ developers talks about a 5 to 10% decrease in earings from last year. Maybe it is fun to be a C++ developer, and a blast from the past to work with legacy code, but it cain't be fun earning less than them managed code guys. Jerry Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
It is all about Windows application development. As a programming language, C# is not even in the same ball park as C++. However, as a windows application development language, C# is almost perfect for 99% of what needs to be done. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Toasty0 wrote: ...when hunting for .Net developers. Bet it is C# and VB.Net and not C++. Of course. They are meant for .NET. Toasty0 wrote: Maybe it is fun to be a C++ developer, and a blast from the past to work with legacy code, but it cain't be fun earning less than them managed code guys. You are contradicting yourself. You talk about managed C++ for .NET and then talk about earning less than the managed code guys. Managed C++ is managed code. If you mean C++ in general earning less than managed code guys then you're comparing apples to oranges. Your head hunter's pamphlet talks about .NET developers. There's a whole world out there that doesn't care about .NET. (I'd venture a guess that it's the vast majority of the programming world) There are millions of embedded system developers, game programmers, scientific developers, kiosk terminal developers real-time critical application developers and on and on who still program in C, assembler and C++ (among other languages). .NET isn't anywhere on their horizon and likely never will be. A recent CP poll is a good example of this: of the millions and millions of mobile phones out there, how many use .NET? Very, very few (if any). I think the reason you can make a good living programming for .NET is that many educational institutions don't even teach it yet; competition is scarce. About 18 months ago I hired a .NET developer for a mapping extension we were building. Not a single applicant had any experience with .NET despite the presence of a very good college (now a university) in town with a computer science program! The fellow I ended up hiring had worked with Delphi programming real-time GPS related code. Did I care about .NET? Not really. Learning languages and frameworks is fairly easy compared to learning about GIS, GPS, mapping projections and GIS frameworks. He transitioned to C# fairly quickly. Earning money in a programming field is not just dependent on the programming languages you work with; your knowledge of the industry's specifics is just as, if not more, important. My 2c. Cheers, Drew.
Just for the record, I never spoke about MC++. Thanks. Jerry Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
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Daniel Turini wrote: Because we're talking about language features here, using external files is cheating: Not exactly. With C++ you can find a library that would produce the effect we were talking about, because C++ has language features (in this case templates and "__nogc" classes) that make this library possible. With C#, you can't find such a library because the language does not offer capabilities to make it (and believe me, I have tried). That's why C++ is a better language than C#: it offers more capabilities and puts less restrictions on libraries' writers.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: With C#, you can't find such a library because the language does not offer capabilities to make it (and believe me, I have tried). Interesting... Any example? please David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: With C#, you can't find such a library because the language does not offer capabilities to make it (and believe me, I have tried). Interesting... Any example? please David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidydnh wrote: Any example? We were talking about a very concrete example in this thread.
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Just for the record, I never spoke about MC++. Thanks. Jerry Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
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It is all about Windows application development. As a programming language, C# is not even in the same ball park as C++. However, as a windows application development language, C# is almost perfect for 99% of what needs to be done. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Couldn't have said it better myself. C# is great for windows apps (I'm finishing one today, in fact). Used in conjunction with some of the UI libraries out there, I'm amazed at how fast I can build a very solid, great looking application. Cheers, Drew.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. C# is great for windows apps (I'm finishing one today, in fact). Used in conjunction with some of the UI libraries out there, I'm amazed at how fast I can build a very solid, great looking application. Cheers, Drew.
Sometimes I wonder what the people who complain about C# are actually trying to do with it. All I know is that if I can run a desk top app and a web app off the same basic codeset - I'm in heaven. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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dnh wrote: Any example? We were talking about a very concrete example in this thread.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: We were talking about a very concrete example in this thread. hmm. So you had problem with disposing while writing NLP library in C#? :confused: Okay I'll re-read the thread. Maybe I missed something... btw I am interested in NLP library, and want to know why C# is bad for it... I am not trying to convince you that C# is better than C++ or something.. I am just curious. David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
It is all about Windows application development. As a programming language, C# is not even in the same ball park as C++. However, as a windows application development language, C# is almost perfect for 99% of what needs to be done. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
I'll agree with that sentiment, with the exception being .NET Compact Framework development, because the amount of P/Invokes you have to write to do anything useful gets scarily high. But the XML support does work better than MSXML, and once you've got the mountain of P/Invokes done it more or less works.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: We were talking about a very concrete example in this thread. hmm. So you had problem with disposing while writing NLP library in C#? :confused: Okay I'll re-read the thread. Maybe I missed something... btw I am interested in NLP library, and want to know why C# is bad for it... I am not trying to convince you that C# is better than C++ or something.. I am just curious. David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidydnh wrote: Okay I'll re-read the thread. Maybe I missed something... :-D Yes, you did. We were talking about
gc_scoped
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Sometimes I wonder what the people who complain about C# are actually trying to do with it. All I know is that if I can run a desk top app and a web app off the same basic codeset - I'm in heaven. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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I'll agree with that sentiment, with the exception being .NET Compact Framework development, because the amount of P/Invokes you have to write to do anything useful gets scarily high. But the XML support does work better than MSXML, and once you've got the mountain of P/Invokes done it more or less works.
I agree with you on that - MS has some work to do to make the Compact Framework as useful as it could be.
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dnh wrote: Okay I'll re-read the thread. Maybe I missed something... :-D Yes, you did. We were talking about
gc_scoped
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
:doh: And I thought you were talking about NLP library, not this (
gc_scooped) one. I was one post behind :-O OK, it was very concrete example then! David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
In a thread ( http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?forumid=1159&select=1121633&fr=51#xx1121181xx[^] ) started by Nish some suggests that C# is dead. Yeah? But which language are the majority of employers looking for when hunting for .Net developers. Bet it is C# and VB.Net and not C++. In fact, reading one head hunter's pamplet on salaries C++ is not even mentioned for .Net developers and the section on C++ developers talks about a 5 to 10% decrease in earings from last year. Maybe it is fun to be a C++ developer, and a blast from the past to work with legacy code, but it cain't be fun earning less than them managed code guys. Jerry Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
Toasty0 wrote: when hunting for .Net developers. Bet it is C# and VB.Net and not C++. MC++ is dead, it always was. So what ? Toasty0 wrote: and the section on C++ developers talks about a 5 to 10% decrease in earings from last year. A percentage decrease does not mean they are earning less than a .NET developer, only less than they did last year. Either way, who gives a toss ? Averages are just that, averages. A good programmer will find a good paying job in the language of their choice. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Toasty0 wrote: Just for the record, I never spoke about MC++. You did say: "...when hunting for .Net developers. Bet it is C# and VB.Net and not C++." A C++ .NET developer would be a MC++ developer, no? Cheers, Drew.
Yes, but that isn't what most post said. If you want to argue a contridiction I didn't make go right ahead. Thanks. Jerry Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
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PS: Is that developing .Net apps which is my other point and premise? Jerry Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
Nope. Embedded stuff. I guess you gotta be in the right field
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
