Hiroshima
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Even though I might agree with some of what has been said, it is VERY bad form to bring that stuff up on a memorial day. :rose: Hiroshima. Let us all hope that these weapons never get used again. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
I don't think it's approriate to bring the memorial day on the website dedicated to programming. But once it happened you have to be preparet for various opinions and points of view. And some uncofortable facts may come to the light in the process. Nuclear weapons will be used again, it's just a matter of when not if. We have Israel and possibly Norht Korea soon to be followed by Iran. We have India and Pakistan and here it's really just a matter of time given the close proximity of both countries not allowing any time to properly verify the other side intentions. And then we have terrorists who will use the weapons as soon as they manage to get any (and considering the shape of Russian nuclear forces it's surprising that still didn't happen).
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Yes, the Japanese were bloodthirsty sex fiends, and Hiroshima was a military and industrial machine. That's irrelevant here. Today, we remember that in 1945, many people died in Hiroshima, killed by one of only two atomic bombs ever used against an enemy nation. We remember and morn the loss of life, as befits death on such a grand scale, and we remember and commemorate the occasion as an event that where the deaths of some spared the lives of others. It is a solumn occasion, one where most initial exuberance has evaporated over the years as details on the full cost of life and health came to light. And yet, it is not an occasion for false regret, as to do so would for many mean regret of their own births. Don't let hatred or pride prevent you from recognizing this for what it is - an occasion unique in human history, one that cannot be understood in terms of any other event. Remember.
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
You've just stated what I tried in 3 different replies to state but could not find the right words and hence cancelled my reply. I was going to leave well enough alone all together but this reply succinctly expresses how I feel without robbing or condemning the land I call home and would die to protect if called upon. Thank you Shog in a huge way I think you just nailed a very good point. Carve it in stone and let it stand because it's a fair statement for all involved. - Rex
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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John Cardinal wrote: But the timing of the whole thing has always seemed very peculiar to me. Almost as if because the bomb existed, it just had to be used, somewhere, anywhere You shouldn't think things like that, next thing you know you'll start asking qustions like how come all those planes had been flying around Hiroshima with full payloads for the last few months before they dropped the bomb on it. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "So keep that smile on your face. Have a drink to help you sleep at night. They got what they desired. We're passive in their brave new world." New Model Army
Not only that, they actually "preserved" the cities designated for nuclear strikes (Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Kokura) and didn't bomb these with conventional weapons. If they did carpet-bomb the place before dropping the nuclear bomb the devastation would not be so obvious since the carpet bombing can do pretty much the same damage. For a long time there were a overflights over the cities by a single american bomber just so the anti aircraft units would get used to it and ignore it. That helped to deliver the real bomb. One of many deception tactics used in the war.
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I don't think it's approriate to bring the memorial day on the website dedicated to programming. But once it happened you have to be preparet for various opinions and points of view. And some uncofortable facts may come to the light in the process. Nuclear weapons will be used again, it's just a matter of when not if. We have Israel and possibly Norht Korea soon to be followed by Iran. We have India and Pakistan and here it's really just a matter of time given the close proximity of both countries not allowing any time to properly verify the other side intentions. And then we have terrorists who will use the weapons as soon as they manage to get any (and considering the shape of Russian nuclear forces it's surprising that still didn't happen).
We're programmers. We're also human. We can morn loss of life, and remember momental occasions. We come from many backgrounds in many countries, brought together by a mutual interest. Understanding and empathising with each other today may let us work together tomorrow. I see now that you're fairly new here, so allow me to welcome you to The Code Project. It's all a bit much to take in at once - likely as not, initial impressions will be misleading. But give it a while, it all makes sense eventually (except for Bob :bob: :) ). You are right in thinking that the horror of the war in some ways explains the Bomb that ended it. But don't be mislead - human history is full of terrible, terrible wars and atrocities, and we will never seen an end to them while we persist in forgetting the aftermath. So that is what we remember when we remember Hiroshima - an end so terrible we hope never to see another. This, more than any other terror, must not be forgotten.
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
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And I believe that there have been condolences expressed here at the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. Why don't you quit the knuckle-dragging, chest-thumping flag waving long enough to acknowledge that innocent people died on both sides. You might find that you're a better person for it.
Innocent people always die in a war, thats the a part about the whole thing. The idea that somehow the US should feel guilty because they ended the war by dropping the bomb is ridiculous. There is no chest thumping or flag waving about it with me, I rode around in a ballistic missle submarine for 4 1/2 years and think that the use of nuclear weapons should be avoided at all costs. The bombing of Japan ending World War 2 accomplished 2 things, it ended the war and made it obvious what a horror nuclear war would be. Imagine instead that the US had had to try to invade the Japanese mainland. Do you think that the people in Tokyo would have been any more willing to surrender than the people of Saipan[^]? Imagine fighting a population of people who are willing to fight to the death believing their Emporer is God. Was dropping the bomb sad? Yes it was, but not something that a million servicemens families should regret Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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No, this thread started with RIP, and you ain't giving them any rest. pc128 wrote: no names calling will come from me here just the facts and carefully stated opinions. As "official" rules say... but there are also "unofficial" rules saying everything controversial goes to soapbox. A-bombing city with 250 000 people IS controversial topic. Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidyAnd so is raping and killing millions correct? Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Innocent people always die in a war, thats the a part about the whole thing. The idea that somehow the US should feel guilty because they ended the war by dropping the bomb is ridiculous. There is no chest thumping or flag waving about it with me, I rode around in a ballistic missle submarine for 4 1/2 years and think that the use of nuclear weapons should be avoided at all costs. The bombing of Japan ending World War 2 accomplished 2 things, it ended the war and made it obvious what a horror nuclear war would be. Imagine instead that the US had had to try to invade the Japanese mainland. Do you think that the people in Tokyo would have been any more willing to surrender than the people of Saipan[^]? Imagine fighting a population of people who are willing to fight to the death believing their Emporer is God. Was dropping the bomb sad? Yes it was, but not something that a million servicemens families should regret Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: The idea that somehow the US should feel guilty because they ended the war by dropping the bomb is ridiculous. I made no statement about the US feeling guilty. In fact I do believe it was justified at the time. Furthermore, people here tend to be fairly well educated. Do you really think they need you to supply the historical context for them? The point was to memorialize the people who died as a result of the use of the most horrific weapon ever developed. If you're unable to do that without spouting nationalistic crap, then don't say anything at all - or move your rant to the Soapbox, where it is more appropriate.
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And so is raping and killing millions correct? Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
WTF?? Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
WTF?? Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidyMillions? I don't know. But sadly, Japan is responsible for very serious human rights violations. The things they did in China are still not widely known and reported. They did some very bad things. I still wish people would have let this be a simple memorial day for Hiroshima. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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Doug Goulden wrote: The idea that somehow the US should feel guilty because they ended the war by dropping the bomb is ridiculous. I made no statement about the US feeling guilty. In fact I do believe it was justified at the time. Furthermore, people here tend to be fairly well educated. Do you really think they need you to supply the historical context for them? The point was to memorialize the people who died as a result of the use of the most horrific weapon ever developed. If you're unable to do that without spouting nationalistic crap, then don't say anything at all - or move your rant to the Soapbox, where it is more appropriate.
LunaticFringe wrote: Do you really think they need you to supply the historical context for them? Yes, people forget the horrors committed on both sides and generally tend to go with a feel good approach. LunaticFringe wrote: If you're unable to do that without spouting nationalistic crap, then don't say anything at all LunaticFringe wrote: or move your rant to the Soapbox, where it is more appropriate. I believe that I responded to the above posts logically and without being insulting. I might point out that you were the rude ranter here. So follow your own advice, if you don't like a post move on, or better yet get over yourself. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Doug Goulden wrote: The idea that somehow the US should feel guilty because they ended the war by dropping the bomb is ridiculous. I made no statement about the US feeling guilty. In fact I do believe it was justified at the time. Furthermore, people here tend to be fairly well educated. Do you really think they need you to supply the historical context for them? The point was to memorialize the people who died as a result of the use of the most horrific weapon ever developed. If you're unable to do that without spouting nationalistic crap, then don't say anything at all - or move your rant to the Soapbox, where it is more appropriate.
LunaticFringe wrote: Furthermore, people here tend to be fairly well educated. Do you really think they need you to supply the historical context for them? People here may be well educated, but their brief in history appears to be well distorted. Typically the believe the media's portrayal of history rather than factual records. This whole thread is full of factual inaccuracies on both sides of the debate. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
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Facts pointing actually. Don't like when people portray Japanese as victims in the war they started and during which they commited incredible amount of war crimes for which they don't even apologize of feel sorry about.
The Japanese.
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I'm afraid it was never there in the first place...
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Millions? I don't know. But sadly, Japan is responsible for very serious human rights violations. The things they did in China are still not widely known and reported. They did some very bad things. I still wish people would have let this be a simple memorial day for Hiroshima. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Right, but how does it (what Doug said) relate to anything I said? :confused: Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
Right, but how does it (what Doug said) relate to anything I said? :confused: Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidyYou made the comment that bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was controversial. I asked whether Japans actions during the war in Nanking, Bataan, or a dozen other places were any less controversial. The reason it is applicable? Because people want to simpathize with Japan's plight when it was bombed. Should I feel bad that my granfather didn't have to try to invade instead? I don't think so. I don't hear anyone lamenting the loss of life in Berlin from the Russians capturing it, instead we celebrate the end of the war, I see this as no different. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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You made the comment that bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was controversial. I asked whether Japans actions during the war in Nanking, Bataan, or a dozen other places were any less controversial. The reason it is applicable? Because people want to simpathize with Japan's plight when it was bombed. Should I feel bad that my granfather didn't have to try to invade instead? I don't think so. I don't hear anyone lamenting the loss of life in Berlin from the Russians capturing it, instead we celebrate the end of the war, I see this as no different. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Doug Goulden wrote: You made the comment that bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was controversial. True. Doug Goulden wrote: I asked whether Japans actions during the war in Nanking, Bataan, or a dozen other places were any less controversial. And I said WTF because all I was saying was why it should go to soapbox, and that original thread was simply remembering death of thousands of people. When lot of people die it is always sad/regretable/bad ( please forgive me my english and insert right word here ), no matter if it was right thing to do in that time. I did not stated my opinion about the event. And hell no I don't think that "raping and killing milions is correct". What made you ask?? I don't see that transition from "Bombing of Hirosima is Soapbox topic, while 60th anniversary is not." to "raping and killing milions is correct". Doug Goulden wrote: Should I feel bad that my granfather didn't have to try to invade instead? I don't think so. I don't think so either. Doug Goulden wrote: I don't hear anyone lamenting the loss of life in Berlin from the Russians capturing it, instead we celebrate the end of the war, I see this as no different. Doug Goulden wrote: I don't hear anyone lamenting the loss of life in Berlin from the Russians capturing it, instead we celebrate the end of the war, I see this as no different. It's part of human nature to remember positive thing better then negative things, and I am happy it is so. Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy