This place is turning into slashdot.
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1. Being a Zealot is not a bad thing if you are right. I really think using the letter "L" for Lindows was a clever move. It is quite different from altering one tailing lettewr in a name, And lets people know it is substantially different. Also the Lin can be seen to indicate the LinUx flavor. Someone was quite clever at wordsmanship. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle 'em with your bullsh*t P J Arends 0 = ( ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) + (x-1)^2) * ( (x-1)^2 + ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) ) - x^4 x != 0 0 = sqrt( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) - 5
Yup, strategies like these were to good to pass up for one of the most powerful(can easily replace with the word effective, though honest will probably not work) marketing department in the world(Microsoft). I can think of many times in the past where they have done this. Anyone remember them trying to use Palm related marketing names for their handheld devices? Also to note sometimes they seem content with generic names for their products: MS SQL server, MS Word. Though what I somewhat dont like is them promoting a standard(biztalk.org), then making a product with the name biztalk server. :suss: Anyway all these big/(sometime even small) companies will push the full limit of the law(sometimes past that) to get more revenue.
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>1. Being a Zealot is not a bad thing if you are right. But how do you honestly know if you are right? If you're a zealot (well, the Open-Source style zealot [no dictionaries please]) you automatically assume that you are right and everybody else is wrong irregardless of any arguments pro or con. The slashdot comment is in regards to the "sky is falling" reaction to a single line blurb excerpted from a news source and nothing more. >I really think using the letter "L" for Lindows was a clever move. Yes, I think so too. I'm not so sure that Lindows should be allowed to retain LindowsOS as a product name, even if the court allow it. There's a difference between right and legal as well as wrong and illegal. I think the Lindows folks are wrong, but legal. However, I don't think Microsoft should be allowed to use Windows as a product name (or any common word for that matter, 'Microsoft Windows' is ok), it's just too common and there's enough established prior art to deny the claim (which is was). We'll never really know, but I do believe money won out in that instance.
Re Zealot There are several different interpretations and definitions. But my statement was oxymoronic. :-) True looking from the inside out a zealots vision will always be coloured, thus they live and justify on belief rather than logic. Microsoft left itself wide open for abuse by using "Windows" as there OS product name and justifyibly deserve all the problems they encounter. What about the Unix X-Window ? Where does it stand now ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle 'em with your bullsh*t P J Arends 0 = ( ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) + (x-1)^2) * ( (x-1)^2 + ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) ) - x^4 x != 0 0 = sqrt( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) - 5
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1. Being a Zealot is not a bad thing if you are right. I really think using the letter "L" for Lindows was a clever move. It is quite different from altering one tailing lettewr in a name, And lets people know it is substantially different. Also the Lin can be seen to indicate the LinUx flavor. Someone was quite clever at wordsmanship. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle 'em with your bullsh*t P J Arends 0 = ( ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) + (x-1)^2) * ( (x-1)^2 + ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) ) - x^4 x != 0 0 = sqrt( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) - 5
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Colin Davies wrote: 1. Being a Zealot is not a bad thing if you are right. Exactly! For example: C++ Zealot -> Good VB Zealot -> Bad C# Zealot -> C++ wanna-be Zealot ;)
George wrote: C# Zealot -> C++ wanna-be Zealot George, perhaps you must start thinking about a I-hate-.NET-jokes collection web site. You have a few good ones to your credit already :-D :-D :-D Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
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It's not that, they "have" to defend their Windows product name. It comes part and parcel with having a trademark. Harley Davidson found itself in the same situation a few years back, so they had to sue their loyal customers. It sucked and it help calcify the impression that Harley has a corporate mindset about it (their pricing doesn't help either), but they need to keep those "Darly-Havidsons" off the street.
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George wrote: C# Zealot -> C++ wanna-be Zealot George, perhaps you must start thinking about a I-hate-.NET-jokes collection web site. You have a few good ones to your credit already :-D :-D :-D Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: George, perhaps you must start thinking about a I-hate-.NET-jokes collection web site. You have a few good ones to your credit already Thanks for the recognition, but it just comes to me "naturally", almost subconcious and unwillingly. I am not actively persecuting .NET, eg. I don't start threads like "C# sucks" etc. If .NET stayed out of my way (eg. I would like the filter that would get rid of the .NET sections when MFC/C++ is selected) I would not say a word about it as I don't really care...
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Colin Davies wrote: 1. Being a Zealot is not a bad thing if you are right. Exactly! For example: C++ Zealot -> Good VB Zealot -> Bad C# Zealot -> C++ wanna-be Zealot ;)
George wrote: Exactly! For example: C++ Zealot -> Good VB Zealot -> Bad C# Zealot -> C++ wanna-be Zealot Turbo Pascal zealot -> Has-been Zealot
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Go for it, but I'm envisioning the logo - it's not a pretty picture...
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George wrote: C# Zealot -> C++ wanna-be Zealot George, perhaps you must start thinking about a I-hate-.NET-jokes collection web site. You have a few good ones to your credit already :-D :-D :-D Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
Here's another joke (don't bother telling me it's bad, I already know :rolleyes: ): .NET -- not much good unless you're trying to catch .FISH "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
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What puzzles me is why Microsoft is so bothered. I mean even if their claims are valid at most how many users are they gonna lose to some kinda linux /windows mixture? Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
I tried Linux. It is better than Windows, if stability is all that is of concern. But you've all read my descriptions of the morons I have to support... it's a great programmer's platform, but an average home or small business user will never accept it! If it was flawless, if every Windows application ran on it without error, then Micro$oft would have reason to attack. But it doesn't work that well... Micro$oft should not be wasting time and energy on such a trivial challenge. If I had the luxury of supporting a bunch of computer-savvy users I'd gladly give up the Micro$oft platform for anything else. But the reality is that they created the first, and only, user-friendly operating system in existance. That they've done a crappy job of it, I won't argue. But it's there, and it's given a whole bunch of us jobs we wouldn't otherwise have. And it's made our employees more productive than ever. Thanks Bill, though I hate your bastard creation... It works, and that's what's important.
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Here's another joke (don't bother telling me it's bad, I already know :rolleyes: ): .NET -- not much good unless you're trying to catch .FISH "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
Daniel Ferguson wrote: .NET -- not much good unless you're trying to catch .FISH How aboout a re-edit, .NET - stinks from old fish. Just trying to help with the cause. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle 'em with your bullsh*t P J Arends 0 = ( ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) + (x-1)^2) * ( (x-1)^2 + ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) ) - x^4 x != 0 0 = sqrt( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) - 5
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Re Zealot There are several different interpretations and definitions. But my statement was oxymoronic. :-) True looking from the inside out a zealots vision will always be coloured, thus they live and justify on belief rather than logic. Microsoft left itself wide open for abuse by using "Windows" as there OS product name and justifyibly deserve all the problems they encounter. What about the Unix X-Window ? Where does it stand now ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle 'em with your bullsh*t P J Arends 0 = ( ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) + (x-1)^2) * ( (x-1)^2 + ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) ) - x^4 x != 0 0 = sqrt( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) - 5
Colin Davies wrote: What about the Unix X-Window ? Where does it stand now ? Actually, the short name is X simply. The longer version is The X Windowing System. And X was around long before Windows IIRC. The original authors of X could very well be (grand?)parents to most of us here.. :) Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
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Just read David Wulff's latest off-base attack on Lindows, and while he has established himself as a delicate little petal, I was suprised to read the responses from the other 'Zealots' out there. Albiet, the mailing list survey is quite silly, there's more to the issue than a 1 line blurb. I thought John Dvorack's testimony (http://www.net2.com/lindows/dvorak.pdf) and the lindowsOS opposition document redacted (redacted=legally edited with a very dark black marker to hide stuff) by Microsoft were just as entertaining (http://www.net2.com/lindows/motion.pdf). David's keen legal insight not withstanding, I think there's more involved in the defense of lindows than a simple user survey. One of their arguments is Microsoft cannot prove that there will be confusion among potential customers (ie: the type of customer that would download the os, burn it to cd, and install the os) regarding the name and the other argument stating that Microsoft has failed to adequatly protect its trademark (Estoppel and latches, google search for polaroid vs polarad for an idea of what that means). Quotes from the lindows website: While Microsoft alleges people will be confused when they asked the judge to shut down Lindows.com, they offered no evidence whatsoever that anyone was actually confused between Microsoft's programs and LindowsOS. In fact, we hired an independent marketing company to conduct a survey, asking over 14,000 likely buyers to participate. The results revealed that not even a SINGLE respondent was confused. The survey was supervised by an expert from San Diego State University. Go here(http://www.net2.com/lindows/survey.pdf) to read about the survey results. We have offered a compromise to Microsoft whereby we would continue to use our company name Lindows.com since that bears no resemblance whatsoever to Microsoft, but we would not use LindowsOS as our product name. This offer was not accepted. ..over the last 10 years Microsoft has never filed a lawsuit similar to the one they filed against Lindows.com in spite of the fact that there are hundreds of products which use the term "Windows".
"This place is turning into slashdot" is an insult against Chris & co if you the "place" you refer to is Codproject and not the lounge. Slashdot is a bubonic mess of trolls and FUD-spreaders who happen to think Linux is "cool" (whatever that means). These users wouldn't know the difference between Solaris and AIX even if their lives depended on it. This site is a pure programming/development site. I dare to say that the average IQ of each CP users left index finger is higher than the combined IQ of 10 slashdot users. ;P Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
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Richard Melton wrote: However, I don't think Microsoft should be allowed to use Windows as a product name (or any common word for that matter, 'Microsoft Windows' is ok), it's just too common and there's enough established prior art to deny the claim (which is was). We'll never really know, but I do believe money won out in that instance. Very true. Almost all their products use totally generic names. word, outlook, excel, office, windows, sql server [geez man, that's the limit] Nish Nish was here, now Nish has gone; He left his soul, to turn you on; Those who knew Nish, knew him well; Those who didn't, can go to hell. I like to :jig: on the Code Project Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org
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Daniel Ferguson wrote: .NET -- not much good unless you're trying to catch .FISH How aboout a re-edit, .NET - stinks from old fish. Just trying to help with the cause. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle 'em with your bullsh*t P J Arends 0 = ( ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) + (x-1)^2) * ( (x-1)^2 + ( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) ) - x^4 x != 0 0 = sqrt( x^2 - (x-1)^2 ) - 5
Or perhaps: .NET smells like rotting .FISH ? "Why kill time, when you can kill yourself?" - Cabaret Voltaire
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Go for it, but I'm envisioning the logo - it's not a pretty picture...
Roger Wright wrote: Go for it, but I'm envisioning the logo - it's not a pretty picture... LOL, that's what I was thinking... :-D Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
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I tried Linux. It is better than Windows, if stability is all that is of concern. But you've all read my descriptions of the morons I have to support... it's a great programmer's platform, but an average home or small business user will never accept it! If it was flawless, if every Windows application ran on it without error, then Micro$oft would have reason to attack. But it doesn't work that well... Micro$oft should not be wasting time and energy on such a trivial challenge. If I had the luxury of supporting a bunch of computer-savvy users I'd gladly give up the Micro$oft platform for anything else. But the reality is that they created the first, and only, user-friendly operating system in existance. That they've done a crappy job of it, I won't argue. But it's there, and it's given a whole bunch of us jobs we wouldn't otherwise have. And it's made our employees more productive than ever. Thanks Bill, though I hate your bastard creation... It works, and that's what's important.
Roger Wright wrote: It is better than Windows, if stability is all that is of concern. I've experienced more problems with my old Redhat installation than my W2k installation. Considering how much compatibility and how many features MS have to pack into the OS, it's quite a feat of engineering. Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
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"This place is turning into slashdot" is an insult against Chris & co if you the "place" you refer to is Codproject and not the lounge. Slashdot is a bubonic mess of trolls and FUD-spreaders who happen to think Linux is "cool" (whatever that means). These users wouldn't know the difference between Solaris and AIX even if their lives depended on it. This site is a pure programming/development site. I dare to say that the average IQ of each CP users left index finger is higher than the combined IQ of 10 slashdot users. ;P Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Chris & co if you the "place" you refer to is Codproject CodProject? Chris, when did you transform CP into a fishing site? Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: This site is a pure programming/development site. I dare to say that the average IQ of each CP users left index finger is higher than the combined IQ of 10 slashdot users. There certainly are a lot of intelligent people here, but I wouldn't go slagging off the Unix people over there. True, there are more teenyboppers there who use Unix just because "Bill Gates is the devil", but you'd be surprised at the amount of support for Microsoft people show there. Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Chris & co if you the "place" you refer to is Codproject CodProject? Chris, when did you transform CP into a fishing site? Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: This site is a pure programming/development site. I dare to say that the average IQ of each CP users left index finger is higher than the combined IQ of 10 slashdot users. There certainly are a lot of intelligent people here, but I wouldn't go slagging off the Unix people over there. True, there are more teenyboppers there who use Unix just because "Bill Gates is the devil", but you'd be surprised at the amount of support for Microsoft people show there. Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
Simon Walton wrote: Chris, when did you transform CP into a fishing site? Well we all go fishing for trolls every now and again, cod just happens to taste good too. James Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki "My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think." - Thick as a Brick, Jethro Tull 1972
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Chris & co if you the "place" you refer to is Codproject CodProject? Chris, when did you transform CP into a fishing site? Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: This site is a pure programming/development site. I dare to say that the average IQ of each CP users left index finger is higher than the combined IQ of 10 slashdot users. There certainly are a lot of intelligent people here, but I wouldn't go slagging off the Unix people over there. True, there are more teenyboppers there who use Unix just because "Bill Gates is the devil", but you'd be surprised at the amount of support for Microsoft people show there. Simon "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know" - Colin Davies Sonork ID 100.10024
Simon Walton wrote: CodProject? Chris, when did you transform CP into a fishing site? Woops :-O. Simon Walton wrote: There certainly are a lot of intelligent people here, but I wouldn't go slagging off the Unix people over there. True, there are more teenyboppers there who use Unix just because "Bill Gates is the devil", but you'd be surprised at the amount of support for Microsoft people show there. I hold no grudge against Unix people at all. In fact, I'm all for Unix. But I am also pragmatic; I use what works and what the customer wants. And the majority of posts on Slashdot are made by teenies and trolls. Have you ever read more than 10 interesting posts on a Slashdot article? So by claiming that CP is turning into Slashdot, I find that insulting if he meant that CP as a whole is turning into Slashdot. If it's just the lounge he means, then it's semi ok, if most who post here are trolls and teenies. Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen