When to start a new language?
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Go for it. In fact, you might find you have to. Certainly in web-dev you have to know a range of languages from the get-go. Before the HTML-bashers step-in I can keep my former sentence without even including HTML; when I started my first web-dev job within the first week we figured out we needed to know VBScript, TSQL, JavaScript and at least be able to recognise and do basic changes in C++ for the COM objects. Now it's still TSQL and JavaScript but also C#, VB.NET and XSLT from the get-go. Then there is knowing the .NET Framework and the ASP.NET environment. Plus the other bits like HTML, CSS, XML etc. I have never been in a uni-language environment but maybe handling multiple environments and languages at once like in web-dev isn't normal. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: VBScript, TSQL, JavaScript and at least be able to recognise and do basic changes in C++ for the COM objects. YEs, when I started here, I was strong in C++, but knew none of the other stuff. I still hate VBScript ( I hate classic ASP, simple as that ), but I don't mind a bit of JScript. I absolutely love XSLT, I'm about to start reading a book on XQuery, which Microsoft is going for over XSLT 2.0 in the next .NET release. I beg to differ though - I have not and I never will code a line of VB.NET. :-) Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Go for it. In fact, you might find you have to. Certainly in web-dev you have to know a range of languages from the get-go. Before the HTML-bashers step-in I can keep my former sentence without even including HTML; when I started my first web-dev job within the first week we figured out we needed to know VBScript, TSQL, JavaScript and at least be able to recognise and do basic changes in C++ for the COM objects. Now it's still TSQL and JavaScript but also C#, VB.NET and XSLT from the get-go. Then there is knowing the .NET Framework and the ASP.NET environment. Plus the other bits like HTML, CSS, XML etc. I have never been in a uni-language environment but maybe handling multiple environments and languages at once like in web-dev isn't normal. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
Since most of our applications are done as database-driven apps I also had to learn TSQL, MySql. I've even made a mock-website of my own using PHP, and then later with using an ISAPI extension DLL written in C++. I guess php is a programming language as well, although I really wasn't thinking of the HTML and SQL-related stuff. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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Since most of our applications are done as database-driven apps I also had to learn TSQL, MySql. I've even made a mock-website of my own using PHP, and then later with using an ISAPI extension DLL written in C++. I guess php is a programming language as well, although I really wasn't thinking of the HTML and SQL-related stuff. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
>SQL-related stuff. I have to say that "knowing" TSQL can make a huge difference. So many things you will try and tackle in say PHP or VBScript that when you know how to do it in TSQL makes more sense and works a lot better. It isn't a nice language at all though, I cringe everytime I have to do an SP. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
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I've been teaching myself C++ now for about a year and a half. I'm OK. There's a lot of stuff I don't remember off the top of my head, but I can get just about anything accomplished that I want by looking it up (or asking in the forums here :) ). Anyway, I recently had a discussion with a co-worker about how long it takes someone to learn a new language, and exactly what 'knowing' a language means. So Friday I started a project in C# (and had never even opened C# before). This project is a visual representation of our company's timeboard that stores the person's state (in/out with time to return and any comments he/she may have). I have it displaying the values from the database by Friday afternoon. I worked on it a little on Saturday, and updated the UI of it a little today. It's not all the way finished, but it works for all intents and purposes. In anyone else's opinion, when would you feel a person is ready to learn a new language? I still consider myself to be learning C++. But does anyone else think it's okay to be learning more than one language at once? And other than some means of certification, when do you say you 'know' a language? Any input is welcome. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
Multi-language programmers are needed in a few industries. Even an archaic language comes in handy to translate code out of. Mult-language (programming language of course) translation is one of my specialities. Of course, english is not, and it is the only human language I know. :doh: Learn at least the basics of each language before you move on. If you are comfortable, you can keep adding languages. But beware! non-use/non-practice will mean easy forgetting of your new languages.... so if you add too much, you may loose more than you gain. Only you will know where that limit is. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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>SQL-related stuff. I have to say that "knowing" TSQL can make a huge difference. So many things you will try and tackle in say PHP or VBScript that when you know how to do it in TSQL makes more sense and works a lot better. It isn't a nice language at all though, I cringe everytime I have to do an SP. regards, Paul Watson South Africa Michael Dunn wrote: "except the sod who voted this a 1, NO SOUP FOR YOU" Crikey! ain't life grand?
T-SQL = The worst of VB + The worst of PASCAL. :) But I agree, knowing it well can be a real time saver and it's just better practice (than having to tie database dependent logic into your app). Jeremy Falcon
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I've been teaching myself C++ now for about a year and a half. I'm OK. There's a lot of stuff I don't remember off the top of my head, but I can get just about anything accomplished that I want by looking it up (or asking in the forums here :) ). Anyway, I recently had a discussion with a co-worker about how long it takes someone to learn a new language, and exactly what 'knowing' a language means. So Friday I started a project in C# (and had never even opened C# before). This project is a visual representation of our company's timeboard that stores the person's state (in/out with time to return and any comments he/she may have). I have it displaying the values from the database by Friday afternoon. I worked on it a little on Saturday, and updated the UI of it a little today. It's not all the way finished, but it works for all intents and purposes. In anyone else's opinion, when would you feel a person is ready to learn a new language? I still consider myself to be learning C++. But does anyone else think it's okay to be learning more than one language at once? And other than some means of certification, when do you say you 'know' a language? Any input is welcome. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
somewhere around 10 years. This has been posted before, but it's a great little essay. I've been programming for 7 years professionally in multiple languages and programming in basic for fun long before that and I still consider myself learning.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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somewhere around 10 years. This has been posted before, but it's a great little essay. I've been programming for 7 years professionally in multiple languages and programming in basic for fun long before that and I still consider myself learning.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
well, I never meant to imply that I would ever be finished. I'll probably be still learning C++ 5 years from now :) If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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I've been teaching myself C++ now for about a year and a half. I'm OK. There's a lot of stuff I don't remember off the top of my head, but I can get just about anything accomplished that I want by looking it up (or asking in the forums here :) ). Anyway, I recently had a discussion with a co-worker about how long it takes someone to learn a new language, and exactly what 'knowing' a language means. So Friday I started a project in C# (and had never even opened C# before). This project is a visual representation of our company's timeboard that stores the person's state (in/out with time to return and any comments he/she may have). I have it displaying the values from the database by Friday afternoon. I worked on it a little on Saturday, and updated the UI of it a little today. It's not all the way finished, but it works for all intents and purposes. In anyone else's opinion, when would you feel a person is ready to learn a new language? I still consider myself to be learning C++. But does anyone else think it's okay to be learning more than one language at once? And other than some means of certification, when do you say you 'know' a language? Any input is welcome. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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I might check it out; the C# book I have is a little outdated. Also, I have the "Visual C++ .Net Bible" as well as "Extending MFC Applications using the .Net Framework" by Tom Archer which I also think are excellent books. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
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somewhere around 10 years. This has been posted before, but it's a great little essay. I've been programming for 7 years professionally in multiple languages and programming in basic for fun long before that and I still consider myself learning.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
nice read, thx for link. I most like this part: When you're the worst, you learn what the masters do, and you learn what they don't like to do (because they make you do it for them). :-D David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
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well, I never meant to imply that I would ever be finished. I'll probably be still learning C++ 5 years from now :) If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
well, I never meant to imply you thought you would. I just thought it was an interesting essay. ;)
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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BlackDice wrote: Well, I'm pretty good at VB6 also. And I was forced into learning Visual FoxPro 7 I have no comment :P Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: I have no comment :laugh: - Nick Parker
My Blog | My Articles -
BlackDice wrote: Well, I'm pretty good at VB6 also. And I was forced into learning Visual FoxPro 7 I have no comment :P Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: I have no comment Knowing VB and VFP coders, so do his code. Yes, even I am blogging now!
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I've been teaching myself C++ now for about a year and a half. I'm OK. There's a lot of stuff I don't remember off the top of my head, but I can get just about anything accomplished that I want by looking it up (or asking in the forums here :) ). Anyway, I recently had a discussion with a co-worker about how long it takes someone to learn a new language, and exactly what 'knowing' a language means. So Friday I started a project in C# (and had never even opened C# before). This project is a visual representation of our company's timeboard that stores the person's state (in/out with time to return and any comments he/she may have). I have it displaying the values from the database by Friday afternoon. I worked on it a little on Saturday, and updated the UI of it a little today. It's not all the way finished, but it works for all intents and purposes. In anyone else's opinion, when would you feel a person is ready to learn a new language? I still consider myself to be learning C++. But does anyone else think it's okay to be learning more than one language at once? And other than some means of certification, when do you say you 'know' a language? Any input is welcome. If I write code in my sleep, does that make me brilliant, or just a lazy programmer? My articles www.stillwaterexpress.com BlackDice - the programmer formerly known as bdiamond
1 day or less to learn, a lifetime to master. One day is enough to fool management. Within a week you should know enough that experts need time to figure out that you only have a week. Everything other than individual syntax you already know about programing applies somehow to any other language. C# is not different enough from C++ that you should count it though. You should focus on Assembly (doesn't matter which processor), Scheme (Any LISP, there are some good books on scheme which is why I recomend it), and other very different languages. There are lessens on knowing both of them that will really help your programing. C# will not give you great insights into how to make a computer tick that C++ can't give you. (this is a generalization, and like all it is not true) Spend time in languages that will give you something completely different.
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[MSA] Matt Newman wrote: If you are learning C# may I recommend Inside C# 2nd Edition by Tom Archer (cpian too nonetheless). In fact i'll be giving a couple copies away at my next C# talk. Matt, Just read a little while ago a post by Tom Archer saying he didn't think MS was interested in a 3rd Edition. What is MS thinking???
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[MSA] Matt Newman wrote: If you are learning C# may I recommend Inside C# 2nd Edition by Tom Archer (cpian too nonetheless). In fact i'll be giving a couple copies away at my next C# talk. Matt, Just read a little while ago a post by Tom Archer saying he didn't think MS was interested in a 3rd Edition. What is MS thinking???
Robert Scott wrote: Just read a little while ago a post by Tom Archer saying he didn't think MS was interested in a 3rd Edition. What is MS thinking??? No kidding, if there were a 3rd edition with C#2.0 dropped in I'd definitely buy it. Matt Newman
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