Yahoo Design Patterns
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In the spirit of Web collegiality, Yahoo has shared out their design pattern library. Many of you have probably seen Yahoo present at IA Summits of the past and know that they're a shining example of incorporating human factors into design and development. http://developer.yahoo.net/ypatterns/index.php[^] Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
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In the spirit of Web collegiality, Yahoo has shared out their design pattern library. Many of you have probably seen Yahoo present at IA Summits of the past and know that they're a shining example of incorporating human factors into design and development. http://developer.yahoo.net/ypatterns/index.php[^] Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Nice.
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In the spirit of Web collegiality, Yahoo has shared out their design pattern library. Many of you have probably seen Yahoo present at IA Summits of the past and know that they're a shining example of incorporating human factors into design and development. http://developer.yahoo.net/ypatterns/index.php[^] Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Where's the beef? (beef is an optimal design pattern to the common problem of people spouting lots of hot air but no actual code). Marc Pensieve
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Where's the beef? (beef is an optimal design pattern to the common problem of people spouting lots of hot air but no actual code). Marc Pensieve
Agreed. All of these things are "nice"...but none of it is really all that new. If you had the same page, as a wiki, with the ability to add small code samples in various languages, that would be sweet.
If dreams are like movies Then memories are films about ghosts You can never escape You can only move south down the coast
Hey Mrs. Potter, don't cry...
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Agreed. All of these things are "nice"...but none of it is really all that new. If you had the same page, as a wiki, with the ability to add small code samples in various languages, that would be sweet.
If dreams are like movies Then memories are films about ghosts You can never escape You can only move south down the coast
Hey Mrs. Potter, don't cry...
David Stone wrote:
that would be sweet.
Definitely! Marc Pensieve
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Agreed. All of these things are "nice"...but none of it is really all that new. If you had the same page, as a wiki, with the ability to add small code samples in various languages, that would be sweet.
If dreams are like movies Then memories are films about ghosts You can never escape You can only move south down the coast
Hey Mrs. Potter, don't cry...
I donno... Let's face it - the actual coding bit of web interfaces usually isn't that hard. Not that you can't have some heavy-duty code going on, but usually it's either behind the scenes on the server, or it's some sort of not-at-all-web interface being used by sites like GMail or Windows Live. The bit most sites seem to really need is the ideas bit. You know, the bit where some grim-looking dude in a long black coat walks into the meeting room, slams his fist down on the table, and in a level voice says, "No, you're not going to use buttons for that. You're gonna use links. Real links. That can be used from the keyboard, and opened in new windows, and bookmarked, dammit!" You know what i mean. Something to slap all the VB monkeys around a little bit, let 'em know that just because they were the hotshot back in '96, cranking out huge forms with hundreds of individually-coded event handlers and navigation based on buttons and magic, doesn't mean they can just start cranking out webpages that actual people - actual not-on-the-payroll people - will be expected to use. Screenshots and a few paragraphs of text seems as good as anything else. Code repositories[^] sure as hell didn't do it.
---- Scripts i've known... CPhog 0.9.9 - make CP better. Forum Bookmark 0.2.5 - bookmark forum posts on Pensieve Print forum 0.1.1 - printer-friendly forums
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Agreed. All of these things are "nice"...but none of it is really all that new. If you had the same page, as a wiki, with the ability to add small code samples in various languages, that would be sweet.
If dreams are like movies Then memories are films about ghosts You can never escape You can only move south down the coast
Hey Mrs. Potter, don't cry...
David Stone wrote:
If you had the same page, as a wiki, with the ability to add small code samples in various languages
For calling Win32 there is http://www.pinvoke.net/[^] jhaga --------------------------------- Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new. Henry David Thoreau, "Walden", 1854
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Where's the beef? (beef is an optimal design pattern to the common problem of people spouting lots of hot air but no actual code). Marc Pensieve
IMO a major problem for mid-level programmers is sorting their tools. In many domains: language tools, design principles, user interface. They know a lot of things and tend to cling to a set they are comfortable with, get excited by new ideas etc. But they lack a feeling which is appropriate where and when. So I see the value of the site not in the list of design patterns itself, but in the orderly discussion, when to use it. Of course, that would be more poignant when they clearly listed when NOT to use it, too.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
I donno... Let's face it - the actual coding bit of web interfaces usually isn't that hard. Not that you can't have some heavy-duty code going on, but usually it's either behind the scenes on the server, or it's some sort of not-at-all-web interface being used by sites like GMail or Windows Live. The bit most sites seem to really need is the ideas bit. You know, the bit where some grim-looking dude in a long black coat walks into the meeting room, slams his fist down on the table, and in a level voice says, "No, you're not going to use buttons for that. You're gonna use links. Real links. That can be used from the keyboard, and opened in new windows, and bookmarked, dammit!" You know what i mean. Something to slap all the VB monkeys around a little bit, let 'em know that just because they were the hotshot back in '96, cranking out huge forms with hundreds of individually-coded event handlers and navigation based on buttons and magic, doesn't mean they can just start cranking out webpages that actual people - actual not-on-the-payroll people - will be expected to use. Screenshots and a few paragraphs of text seems as good as anything else. Code repositories[^] sure as hell didn't do it.
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most of the time i (and other people) just want to get work done and the "link" is not appropriate to bookmark. A button will do, such as "submit these payments" button on my banks bill-payer service. So fancy-shmancy links aren't always the answer either. just for the record i'm not a vb guy, far from it -- i'm a c++ guru. i have seen many a website that go way too far to the side you're talking about. people want interactivity and a good user experience. often, "traditional" web methodologies are not appropriate and do not lend themselves to a good user experience. i want web apps that look, feel and act like a standalone app -- and are fast too. screw the browser, bookmarking, linking or other html-like stuff if it doesn't make it easier to use. i want apps that maintain state and are easy to use. i don't care if it runs inside the browser, i want ease-of-use and speed and a good user experience. having to click links and wait for the page to refresh is not my idea of good app design or experience. i've got a computer here, right here dammit, let me download the code and run it locally and give me a better UI! do the server stuff behind the scenes, i don't care to know!
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IMO a major problem for mid-level programmers is sorting their tools. In many domains: language tools, design principles, user interface. They know a lot of things and tend to cling to a set they are comfortable with, get excited by new ideas etc. But they lack a feeling which is appropriate where and when. So I see the value of the site not in the list of design patterns itself, but in the orderly discussion, when to use it. Of course, that would be more poignant when they clearly listed when NOT to use it, too.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighistpeterchen wrote:
poignant when they clearly listed when NOT to use it, too.
absolutely!!
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most of the time i (and other people) just want to get work done and the "link" is not appropriate to bookmark. A button will do, such as "submit these payments" button on my banks bill-payer service. So fancy-shmancy links aren't always the answer either. just for the record i'm not a vb guy, far from it -- i'm a c++ guru. i have seen many a website that go way too far to the side you're talking about. people want interactivity and a good user experience. often, "traditional" web methodologies are not appropriate and do not lend themselves to a good user experience. i want web apps that look, feel and act like a standalone app -- and are fast too. screw the browser, bookmarking, linking or other html-like stuff if it doesn't make it easier to use. i want apps that maintain state and are easy to use. i don't care if it runs inside the browser, i want ease-of-use and speed and a good user experience. having to click links and wait for the page to refresh is not my idea of good app design or experience. i've got a computer here, right here dammit, let me download the code and run it locally and give me a better UI! do the server stuff behind the scenes, i don't care to know!
ahz wrote:
So fancy-shmancy links aren't always the answer either.
They're the answer when you're linking to something. Which is (surprise surprise!) a big, big part of the web. Yeah, if i'm submitting a form, or otherwise initiating some sort of process, then a button is appropriate. But as a link to further information next to a product picture? As a link to the next page of search results? No, those are obviously links, and using a button to access them is just stupid.
ahz wrote:
i want web apps that look, feel and act like a standalone app -- and are fast too. screw the browser, bookmarking, linking or other html-like stuff if it doesn't make it easier to use.
That's why i excluded the "web apps" that try for rich interfaces ala GMail / Windows Live. I'm talking about a website, where the aim of me, the user, is to read an article, or product description, or look at pictures.
ahz wrote:
having to click links and wait for the page to refresh is not my idea of good app design or experience.
When i'm accessing the site through my phone, or two million other users are hitting the same site, or an important hub somewhere between me and the servers just blew up and traffic is being routed through Belize... then i'm going to have to wait to get new data. The question is, how am i informed of that, and what can i do while i'm waiting. You can either recognize that i'm probably using a webbrowser to access your site, a program explicitly designed to give the user information about and control over slow and flaky network connections... or you can pretend that everyone who'll be viewing your site will be sitting at the console on your server, and leave me sitting puzzled while the link i just clicked appears to do nothing, and a bit of javascript spins its wheels in the background. This is what frustrates me about so many ASP.NET sites. They're not web apps! At best, they're database-driven websites, lots of content that will look just the same and be accessed in just the same manner a week, a month, a year from now as it is today. Just because a particular article isn't actually stored in a file on disk doesn't mean that i shouldn't be able to bookmark it, or copy the link into an email, or other such web-like activities. But because someone tried to be clever and base the page displayed
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ahz wrote:
So fancy-shmancy links aren't always the answer either.
They're the answer when you're linking to something. Which is (surprise surprise!) a big, big part of the web. Yeah, if i'm submitting a form, or otherwise initiating some sort of process, then a button is appropriate. But as a link to further information next to a product picture? As a link to the next page of search results? No, those are obviously links, and using a button to access them is just stupid.
ahz wrote:
i want web apps that look, feel and act like a standalone app -- and are fast too. screw the browser, bookmarking, linking or other html-like stuff if it doesn't make it easier to use.
That's why i excluded the "web apps" that try for rich interfaces ala GMail / Windows Live. I'm talking about a website, where the aim of me, the user, is to read an article, or product description, or look at pictures.
ahz wrote:
having to click links and wait for the page to refresh is not my idea of good app design or experience.
When i'm accessing the site through my phone, or two million other users are hitting the same site, or an important hub somewhere between me and the servers just blew up and traffic is being routed through Belize... then i'm going to have to wait to get new data. The question is, how am i informed of that, and what can i do while i'm waiting. You can either recognize that i'm probably using a webbrowser to access your site, a program explicitly designed to give the user information about and control over slow and flaky network connections... or you can pretend that everyone who'll be viewing your site will be sitting at the console on your server, and leave me sitting puzzled while the link i just clicked appears to do nothing, and a bit of javascript spins its wheels in the background. This is what frustrates me about so many ASP.NET sites. They're not web apps! At best, they're database-driven websites, lots of content that will look just the same and be accessed in just the same manner a week, a month, a year from now as it is today. Just because a particular article isn't actually stored in a file on disk doesn't mean that i shouldn't be able to bookmark it, or copy the link into an email, or other such web-like activities. But because someone tried to be clever and base the page displayed
Shog9 wrote:
They're the answer when you're linking to something.
of course. i agree wholeheartedly. its just that sometimes "links" get misused as buttons.
Shog9 wrote:
This is what frustrates me about so many ASP.NET sites.
you definately have a point there.
Shog9 wrote:
But if your site is like most of the thousands of other sites i've been visiting since the '90s, then it better work like them too.
yep. agree there too.