Career Question
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Yeah, I'd like to go for a good jog but living in the high altitude and being not in the shape I was in during high school, makes it difficult :)
Speaking about jogging, I would love to do it too, but the wheater just doesn't let me. It's so freakin cold my lungs would freeze. regards, Mircea Many people spend their life going to sleep when they’re not sleepy and waking up while they still are.
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
middle of nowhere
Whereabouts? I am pretty settled in where I am :)
computerguru92382 wrote:
Whereabouts? I am pretty settled in where I am
Look north from El Paso, TX... and spit. There we are. ;) the white stain on the ground is from everyone else doing the same... :laugh: _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I've been doing .NET contract work for about the last 2 1/2 years, focusing on C#, WinForms and SQL Server Stored Procedures. I have just recently been converted to permanent (about a month ago). This position was my second IT contract. The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k), but the company is a start-up with some great ideas, a lot of capital, and a lot of smart people behind the helm. It barely has an IT department, so one of the major appeals was being able to get in on the ground floor. I was assured by my project manager that if I stayed on board, I would achieve Sr. Level Developer status. This also interested me. We have one senior level developer already on board, who has about five-seven years in the industry. He has recently accepted another position with a different company, so I was looking forward to stepping into his shoes, as my project manager led me to believe I would be able to do multiple times. I was being trained on the different areas that I would need to know to take over his position, and I had not received any complaints. As a matter of fact, my manager had asked me to step up to bat and fill in for him at this time, and to quote "make me proud". Well, today my project manager hired another Sr. Level Developer to replace him, so I'm left wondering what happened? Was my project manager simply trying to tell me what I want to hear to come on-board full-time? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a full-time position and to be able to work for this company, but, somehow, I feel a little cheated. I may sound over-ambitious. I'm only 25 and have been doing this only 2-3 years, but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time. Any opinions?
dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time.
Well, I may sound really sarcastic saying this, but you don't owe them anything beyond 8-5, and they certainly won't treat you like anything other than a replaceable resource. It's a hard lesson to learn. Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures
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I don't think it's fair at all to judge this. We don't know the work required. We don't know anything about what's involved. Whether it's 70K or 35K doesn't matter. Obviously, there's a reason for disgruntlement and it goes beyond the wage. I think he's just framing the whole context for his state of mind and what's affecting his decisions. If I told you guys how much I made you'd wish you were me... If I told you how much I worked you'd be glad you weren't... If I told you what my expenses were to operate including taxes and other fees you'd be ill... I won't tell you any of that though. ;) I will say that after being an employee and now self employed there's nothing I'd rather be doing than working for myself. It's the best.:rose:
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code-frog wrote:
If I told you guys how much I made you'd wish you were me... If I told you how much I worked you'd be glad you weren't... If I told you what my expenses were to operate including taxes and other fees you'd be ill...
A) Nope, I prefer being myself... I spent too many years being molded into someone else... THAT was illness. B) Same issue, would have never considered being someone else. :) but I might encourage you to relax a bit. ;) C) Nope, I am familiar with operational expenses on the... err... grander scale, I'd probably shrug.
code-frog wrote:
I will say that after being an employee and now self employed there's nothing I'd rather be doing than working for myself. It's the best.
That is what is important, regardless of salary, or position, or location, if you are happy, that is what is most important. If you are just "satisfied" perhaps it is time to look about. If you are unhappy, look before you get ulcers. :) _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time.
Well, I may sound really sarcastic saying this, but you don't owe them anything beyond 8-5, and they certainly won't treat you like anything other than a replaceable resource. It's a hard lesson to learn. Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures
Marc Clifton wrote:
Well, I may sound really sarcastic saying this, but you don't owe them anything beyond 8-5, and they certainly won't treat you like anything other than a replaceable resource.
Yes. It's that last part that most people don't think too much off - that every employee is replaceable.
Marc Clifton wrote:
It's a hard lesson to learn.
Again, yes. My 5. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
computerguru92382 wrote:
Whereabouts? I am pretty settled in where I am
Look north from El Paso, TX... and spit. There we are. ;) the white stain on the ground is from everyone else doing the same... :laugh: _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
In Las Cruces? Either way I am about 10 hours up I-10 from you :)
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Speaking about jogging, I would love to do it too, but the wheater just doesn't let me. It's so freakin cold my lungs would freeze. regards, Mircea Many people spend their life going to sleep when they’re not sleepy and waking up while they still are.
Mircea Grelus wrote:
It's so freakin cold my lungs would freeze.
How cold is it where you are?
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I don't think it's fair at all to judge this. We don't know the work required. We don't know anything about what's involved. Whether it's 70K or 35K doesn't matter. Obviously, there's a reason for disgruntlement and it goes beyond the wage. I think he's just framing the whole context for his state of mind and what's affecting his decisions. If I told you guys how much I made you'd wish you were me... If I told you how much I worked you'd be glad you weren't... If I told you what my expenses were to operate including taxes and other fees you'd be ill... I won't tell you any of that though. ;) I will say that after being an employee and now self employed there's nothing I'd rather be doing than working for myself. It's the best.:rose:
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code-frog wrote:
I will say that after being an employee and now self employed there's nothing I'd rather be doing than working for myself. It's the best.
I'd be interested in knowing how you got started. I mean, where did you go for initial contacts, etc. Jeremy Falcon
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In Las Cruces? Either way I am about 10 hours up I-10 from you :)
computerguru92382 wrote:
In Las Cruces? Either way I am about 10 hours up I-10 from you
It's just a jump to the east.... I have actually been out to the LA area several times, between customers north of there, and conferences in LA and a vacation at Yosemite... I have spent more time in the L.A. area than I have with family. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Well put. Sometimes you have to grab life by the balls and run with it. Jeremy Falcon
Sounds a bit gay to me. Steve
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computerguru92382 wrote:
In Las Cruces? Either way I am about 10 hours up I-10 from you
It's just a jump to the east.... I have actually been out to the LA area several times, between customers north of there, and conferences in LA and a vacation at Yosemite... I have spent more time in the L.A. area than I have with family. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I am about 15 miles or so north of San Bernardino in the mountains enjoying the 30" of snow we got this weekend :-D
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And I am about to graduate with a Master's in Computer Sci with 10+ years IT experience. Cannot attract anyone's attention for a good paying job (by my standard right now, would be 50K+/yr) and he is having an issue about 70k? Sounds like someone needs to thank God they have a good job :)
I agree - Perhaps he shouldn't rock the boat. Steve
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Sounds a bit gay to me. Steve
It's just a figure of speach. :) Jeremy Falcon
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code-frog wrote:
If I told you guys how much I made you'd wish you were me... If I told you how much I worked you'd be glad you weren't... If I told you what my expenses were to operate including taxes and other fees you'd be ill...
A) Nope, I prefer being myself... I spent too many years being molded into someone else... THAT was illness. B) Same issue, would have never considered being someone else. :) but I might encourage you to relax a bit. ;) C) Nope, I am familiar with operational expenses on the... err... grander scale, I'd probably shrug.
code-frog wrote:
I will say that after being an employee and now self employed there's nothing I'd rather be doing than working for myself. It's the best.
That is what is important, regardless of salary, or position, or location, if you are happy, that is what is most important. If you are just "satisfied" perhaps it is time to look about. If you are unhappy, look before you get ulcers. :) _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Well you kind of illustrate my point. You cannot judge other people on how much they make, work, do. You just don't have enough information and you never could... As you state so well you aren't them.:-D
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It's just a figure of speach. :) Jeremy Falcon
Ahhhh. Steve
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It's just a figure of speach. :) Jeremy Falcon
I've got a less gay version: "Sometimes you have to grab life by the boobs and run with it." Steve
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I've been doing .NET contract work for about the last 2 1/2 years, focusing on C#, WinForms and SQL Server Stored Procedures. I have just recently been converted to permanent (about a month ago). This position was my second IT contract. The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k), but the company is a start-up with some great ideas, a lot of capital, and a lot of smart people behind the helm. It barely has an IT department, so one of the major appeals was being able to get in on the ground floor. I was assured by my project manager that if I stayed on board, I would achieve Sr. Level Developer status. This also interested me. We have one senior level developer already on board, who has about five-seven years in the industry. He has recently accepted another position with a different company, so I was looking forward to stepping into his shoes, as my project manager led me to believe I would be able to do multiple times. I was being trained on the different areas that I would need to know to take over his position, and I had not received any complaints. As a matter of fact, my manager had asked me to step up to bat and fill in for him at this time, and to quote "make me proud". Well, today my project manager hired another Sr. Level Developer to replace him, so I'm left wondering what happened? Was my project manager simply trying to tell me what I want to hear to come on-board full-time? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a full-time position and to be able to work for this company, but, somehow, I feel a little cheated. I may sound over-ambitious. I'm only 25 and have been doing this only 2-3 years, but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time. Any opinions?
I don't believe at 25 years old that you can be considered a senior engineer. Your boss may have assumed that after 5-7 years of experience, you would be ready for this position. Also, you have only been a permanent employee for a month, so that's a strike against you. You did not mention whether you have a degree or not. If you don't, then you probably wouldn't become a senior developer until you had 10 years of experience. There is more to it than just knowing C# inside and out. Senior developers also define the architecture of a project, manage junior developers, work with external companies for contract/outsource work. I would suggest going to Salary.com[^] and looking at the job description for a senior developer. I know you feel like you got screwed, but your boss's boss may have made the decision due to your background and experience level. Regards, Brigg Thorp Senior Software Engineer Timex Corporation
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I've got a less gay version: "Sometimes you have to grab life by the boobs and run with it." Steve
Now THAT! Was funny!
A Plain English signature. Code-frog System Architects, Inc.
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I've been doing .NET contract work for about the last 2 1/2 years, focusing on C#, WinForms and SQL Server Stored Procedures. I have just recently been converted to permanent (about a month ago). This position was my second IT contract. The salary was quite not what I was expecting (around 70k), but the company is a start-up with some great ideas, a lot of capital, and a lot of smart people behind the helm. It barely has an IT department, so one of the major appeals was being able to get in on the ground floor. I was assured by my project manager that if I stayed on board, I would achieve Sr. Level Developer status. This also interested me. We have one senior level developer already on board, who has about five-seven years in the industry. He has recently accepted another position with a different company, so I was looking forward to stepping into his shoes, as my project manager led me to believe I would be able to do multiple times. I was being trained on the different areas that I would need to know to take over his position, and I had not received any complaints. As a matter of fact, my manager had asked me to step up to bat and fill in for him at this time, and to quote "make me proud". Well, today my project manager hired another Sr. Level Developer to replace him, so I'm left wondering what happened? Was my project manager simply trying to tell me what I want to hear to come on-board full-time? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have a full-time position and to be able to work for this company, but, somehow, I feel a little cheated. I may sound over-ambitious. I'm only 25 and have been doing this only 2-3 years, but I've been busting my ass for this company, working late nights (often until midnight or into the early morning hours), giving up weekends and corporate holidays to meet deadlines, and doing all that was necessary to get the job done on time. Any opinions?
Thank you all for your input. I think a lot of you misunderstand. This is not a matter of me being over-ambitious. This is a matter of my project manager saying one thing to bring me on board, then completely forgetting about that once I did. I'm sure it was a business decision, and, honestly, I probably don't have the necessary experience to be considered a senior developer at this time. The fact of the matter is, I wish he would have just been honest with me. I probably would have still jumped on board if he would have come to me and said "Casey, we really want you to come on board and _eventually_ become our senior level developer". And, secondly, not to offend, but I don't care much for some of the condescending responses that I'm getting from this post. A lot of you have provided really helpful input, but a few decided to be patronizing. Listen. I don't claim to know everything about .NET and be the best developer that's out there. I don't have as much experience as a lot of you. I have, however, managed to develop a complete CRM and a billing system for this company in the amount of time that I have been here (4 months). I'm not a rookie. I like this web site, and I appreciate good input, but lets not battle egoes.
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Thank you all for your input. I think a lot of you misunderstand. This is not a matter of me being over-ambitious. This is a matter of my project manager saying one thing to bring me on board, then completely forgetting about that once I did. I'm sure it was a business decision, and, honestly, I probably don't have the necessary experience to be considered a senior developer at this time. The fact of the matter is, I wish he would have just been honest with me. I probably would have still jumped on board if he would have come to me and said "Casey, we really want you to come on board and _eventually_ become our senior level developer". And, secondly, not to offend, but I don't care much for some of the condescending responses that I'm getting from this post. A lot of you have provided really helpful input, but a few decided to be patronizing. Listen. I don't claim to know everything about .NET and be the best developer that's out there. I don't have as much experience as a lot of you. I have, however, managed to develop a complete CRM and a billing system for this company in the amount of time that I have been here (4 months). I'm not a rookie. I like this web site, and I appreciate good input, but lets not battle egoes.
dynam0k2atgmaildotcom wrote:
This is a matter of my project manager saying one thing to bring me on board, then completely forgetting about that once I did.
I've had that happen many of times and because they didn't follow through with their promises when bringing me onboard, they wind up finding a nice two weeks notice at crunch time :)