Advantages ASP.NET/SQL Server vs. PHP/MySql
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There are many differences and I believe it takes far less work in development and maintaining an ASP.NET site than you would spend to have the same benefits with PHP. I used PHP for a few years and will never use it again! I have flashback every time I open a can of spaghetti :) Anyway, putting personal preferences aside, there have been several wars on the difference here in the Lounge and a quick search might find a few of them. As for cost, that is a joke anymore. ASP.NET hosting is trivial in cost for many different places. If there host is only Linux, that is easy to change. Some mention the cost of SQL Server, but that is usually included in most hosting packages. If not, they usually have SQL Server Express which will work for most basic types of sites (such as DotNetNuke). There is even supposed to be a module out now to use MySql with DNN, so cost should not be a factor. Clean, clear, reusable code with great scalability and modular design all come for free in ASP.NET!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Zune to be built by Toshiba
You must have missed the part where he said it has to run on Linux.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Why is it better to use MS technology ? Tell me I am an IT person, then we can re-word for the masses
One argument in favor of a Microsoft-centric solution is that decent Microsoft resources that can support and enhance the application are more abundant and easier to find. For a smaller client lacking in-house resources this flexibility can be a huge difference maker alone. Given that, its probably still in your best interest to learn to develop on PHP/MySQL platform. Especially since then you can build more cost-effective solutions for your clients AND be the one they know to turn to in the future.
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Ok i can see wxactly where you are coming from, your native language is what you are going to produce the best products in (unless you're not actually coding but i'm going to assume you are). HOWEVER it is well known that windows was NEVER designed to be on the web. It is the most vulnerable of the OS's (Mac, Linux (Based on SUSE), UNIX) for many different reasons. All my user end interfaces and basic functions on the web are ALL PHP and MySQL. This is just because to use anything but Linux and Apache as a web server would be occupational suicide. I'm guessing your client does not have a strong IT background and therefore could never hope to find the security holes in their server. Trust me on this, Linux iswhat you want. PHP is the 3rd easiest language i ever learned and MySql really cuts the overhead. Please if you listen to one thing i say make sure you tell your clients about the security risk in a way they can understand. It is bad practice to customize the job for a solution, rather then the other way around.
From Brad
Bradml wrote:
HOWEVER it is well known that windows was NEVER designed to be on the web. It is the most vulnerable of the OS's (Mac, Linux (Based on SUSE), UNIX) for many different reasons.
Complete rubbish. Go look at the vulnerability statistics for Windows Server 2003 versus any recent Linux distro. Windows wins. Compare IIS 6.0 to Apache. IIS 6.0 wins. There have been three vulnerabilities, total, listed on Secunia[^] since its release in 2003. The most recent one only applies to the ASP runtime which is disabled by default, and if you're only coding ASP.NET pages, isn't required. Anyone who thinks that a Windows web server will be vulnerable in 2006 needs to get up to date.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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we are hosting .Net- SQL on a server for $8 per month (www.webhost4life.com), we understand everything on there and can manage our databases using Enterprise Manager, We are also hosting a php/mysql joomla website for about $6 per month - but the addtional effort and time spent on the joomla website has probalbly cost us about $400 per month in wasted time. Go with what you know, even if it costs more- you will save money in the long run. PS: Microsoft had a product like PHP/ MSQL a while ago - it was called ASP v1.0 and MS Access.:rolleyes:
jasperp wrote:
PS: Microsoft had a product like PHP/ MSQL a while ago - it was called ASP v1.0 and MS Access
Spoken like a true zealot that doesn't know what they are talking about.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
If you plan on being successful, I don't see how knowing both of them will hurt your business.
I agree with you, Jeremy. Does not hurt to know both PHP/MySQL and ASP.NET/MSSQL.
I'd like to help but I don't feel like Googling it for you.
Yeah, I think most people don't for religious reasons. But, if you're in the business, I don't see the harm in learning both.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Did they choose you specifically for this project? If so then I imagine they had an idea why they wanted you. As much as I want to say what the others are saying, that actually maybe PHP/MySQL or some other LAMP like stack is better, if you aren't proficient in those areas and are good at ASP.NET then that is your reasoning to them. Technology is not chosen just for technologies sake, businesses often choose on HR issues before technology issues. One thing you dont want to do is sell PHP/MySQL and then not be able to deliver. Don't concede on some points just to get your foot in the door and then find you can't actually do the project to your normal standards. So you need to look at your position with them. Do they want you or do they just want the project done? they may want you because they see a good future with you that they don't see with other developers in which case your technology choice, and happiness, is more important than initial costs. Saying all that most of your points against PHP above can be countered by using Ruby on Rails and still be on the cheap LAMP stack ;) (I really, really, really like Rails.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
Currently it is a public request for proposal so they haven't chosen me. I am still in the process to decide if I will make them an offer or not and if I make them an offer on which technology. I contacted the manager to figure out if a ASP.NET solution has a chance to get the job. As I said, they want a CMS system and I would like to offer them to use an open source CMS and adjust it to their needs. The CMS I have in mind are all able to solve 99% of their needs so I guess offer it with on PHP/MySql based shouldn't be a big problem and I still have some knowledge in PHP and little in MySql. I also know some people who are PHP/MySql Pros. However, I would prefer the technology I know best. Stephan
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Yeah, I think most people don't for religious reasons. But, if you're in the business, I don't see the harm in learning both.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
You should consider using .Net Express edition, it´s free, even SQL Express is free but limited to a small amount of file size. Microsoft tells that you can use it to make money or just for learning. Take a read at http://msdn.microsoft.com
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You should consider using .Net Express edition, it´s free, even SQL Express is free but limited to a small amount of file size. Microsoft tells that you can use it to make money or just for learning. Take a read at http://msdn.microsoft.com
We're not talking about development costs. ;)
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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You must have missed the part where he said it has to run on Linux.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Actually no, he said due to costs. There are large number of hosting companies that can provide ASP.NET hosting as low as Linux. So, cost is not a factor, that was one of the points. Even if they are so stupid to think Linux was their only option, then they could still run it on Mono!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Zune to be built by Toshiba
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I am currently working on a proposal for a CMS. One requirement from the customer is that they want the CMS running on a LINUX webserver. They don't have their own webserver what would explain why they want it on LINUX. My guess is they don't want to spend a lot of money for hosting (it is just a small non-profit organization). My idea is to offer them an open source CMS like DotNetNuke with the customizing they need. I know I could use Typo3 or PhpNuke, but my skills in PHP and MySql are not as strength as my ASP.NET and SQL Server skills (and I need to create some modules). However, I would like to explain them why it is better to use the MS technology but I don't know exactly what I should tell them because they are no IT people. From your point of view, what would you tell them? Thanks for your thoughts. Stephan
As someone already told you it may be good idea to learn the other side so you can at least identify pros and cons on both sides. For starters PHP is C ripoff very easy to learn and understand and that's probably why it became so popular. It has functions for almost anything. But it has a mess libraries with no consistency, there may be 3 functions doing same or similar things. Someone criticized that PHP needs some 2000 functions for what Perl can do the same with well designed library of 300. Google on how many problems people have with "magic quotes". Secondly PHP is fairly slow. There is a comparison available between c# and PHP here: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/csharp.php That's actually comparison for Mono C#, which last time I checked did not stand-up to MS C# benchmark-wise. The ASP.NET server will be way more responsive than PHP one. In my opinion Visual Studio is superior editor and debugger to any PHP editor/debugger (if you'll be learning PHP and like your VS, try out the VS.PHP) IMO PHP is more suitable for quick hacking and prototyping, but .NET is more suitable for writing robust long-term easily maintainable web apps. Cannot give you comparison of MySQL and MSSQL because never had to do anything with the latter. Cheers Roman
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I am currently working on a proposal for a CMS. One requirement from the customer is that they want the CMS running on a LINUX webserver. They don't have their own webserver what would explain why they want it on LINUX. My guess is they don't want to spend a lot of money for hosting (it is just a small non-profit organization). My idea is to offer them an open source CMS like DotNetNuke with the customizing they need. I know I could use Typo3 or PhpNuke, but my skills in PHP and MySql are not as strength as my ASP.NET and SQL Server skills (and I need to create some modules). However, I would like to explain them why it is better to use the MS technology but I don't know exactly what I should tell them because they are no IT people. From your point of view, what would you tell them? Thanks for your thoughts. Stephan
Hey mate, Have you considered Joombla its an awsome of CMS and its free and Although I am a .Net person, I still recommend using it. Also any one who isn't computing-challenged can set them up, there isn't much programming invloved unless you decided to build your own modules. And most likey some else has built a module to your likings. Also like some other guys have mention, PHP and MYSQL have their benfits, they are completely free however the CASE tools might be lacking in some areas, PHP is still a really useful language and would widen your skills as a developer. Furthermore Considering most langauges are similar, PHP isn't that much of a leap, if you have experinence with a any oop, javascript or bash scripting. Perferably a bit of everything :)
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Bradml wrote:
HOWEVER it is well known that windows was NEVER designed to be on the web. It is the most vulnerable of the OS's (Mac, Linux (Based on SUSE), UNIX) for many different reasons.
Complete rubbish. Go look at the vulnerability statistics for Windows Server 2003 versus any recent Linux distro. Windows wins. Compare IIS 6.0 to Apache. IIS 6.0 wins. There have been three vulnerabilities, total, listed on Secunia[^] since its release in 2003. The most recent one only applies to the ASP runtime which is disabled by default, and if you're only coding ASP.NET pages, isn't required. Anyone who thinks that a Windows web server will be vulnerable in 2006 needs to get up to date.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
I agree A server is as secure as you make it, people running both windows or linux can still experience of security problems, it comes down the practices of the system admin. Also on another note, i think people miss the point with MYSQL, its just another RDMS there is no majour difference, just sutle ones. Minus the IDE support you get with VS and the MS SQL Server Interface (For common uses anways :) )
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We're not talking about development costs. ;)
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
We're not talking about development costs.
Totally. Cost is something to think about, but client requirement is more important. Figure out what they need/want, and go from there.
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Yeah, I think most people don't for religious reasons. But, if you're in the business, I don't see the harm in learning both.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
if you're in the business, I don't see the harm in learning both.
Yup, doesn't hurt at all. Just adds to one's skill sets.
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we are hosting .Net- SQL on a server for $8 per month (www.webhost4life.com), we understand everything on there and can manage our databases using Enterprise Manager, We are also hosting a php/mysql joomla website for about $6 per month - but the addtional effort and time spent on the joomla website has probalbly cost us about $400 per month in wasted time. Go with what you know, even if it costs more- you will save money in the long run. PS: Microsoft had a product like PHP/ MSQL a while ago - it was called ASP v1.0 and MS Access.:rolleyes:
I had a bit of a similar problem where my provider was Linux. I am able to use ASP (1.0 - yuck) - and used MySQL for the database. It worked fantastic. MySQL is easy to use and there are free front-end tools to work with it. So on my Windows box at home, I can view my MySQL database. I would say, at least consider MySQL. As someone who had never used it before, I was really, really impressed with it.
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I am currently working on a proposal for a CMS. One requirement from the customer is that they want the CMS running on a LINUX webserver. They don't have their own webserver what would explain why they want it on LINUX. My guess is they don't want to spend a lot of money for hosting (it is just a small non-profit organization). My idea is to offer them an open source CMS like DotNetNuke with the customizing they need. I know I could use Typo3 or PhpNuke, but my skills in PHP and MySql are not as strength as my ASP.NET and SQL Server skills (and I need to create some modules). However, I would like to explain them why it is better to use the MS technology but I don't know exactly what I should tell them because they are no IT people. From your point of view, what would you tell them? Thanks for your thoughts. Stephan
I'm an ASP.NET/SQL Server programmer and I'm also helping a non-profit organization. Guess what. I'm programing for them with php/mysql a cms, I'm using Joomla and it's quite ok. It's php AND it's object oriented so it's quite easy even thought you dont know the language. Even more, you dont have to mind filling/storing the objects, it's all done for you. Just to be a bit aware of the API, but for every programmer that's assumed and it's the easy part. I would recommend php and mysql for those projects, just to keep them simple and cheap to host, but it's up to you which offer... but please dont offer them asp.net/sql just because you know them MORE than php/mysql...that's not a good reason!!! elf
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hey don't compare MS Access with MySQL, MS Access is a joke in the name of databases. If you are unhappy with MySQL try PostgreSQL.
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I am currently working on a proposal for a CMS. One requirement from the customer is that they want the CMS running on a LINUX webserver. They don't have their own webserver what would explain why they want it on LINUX. My guess is they don't want to spend a lot of money for hosting (it is just a small non-profit organization). My idea is to offer them an open source CMS like DotNetNuke with the customizing they need. I know I could use Typo3 or PhpNuke, but my skills in PHP and MySql are not as strength as my ASP.NET and SQL Server skills (and I need to create some modules). However, I would like to explain them why it is better to use the MS technology but I don't know exactly what I should tell them because they are no IT people. From your point of view, what would you tell them? Thanks for your thoughts. Stephan
My answer would be productivity. I honestly don't believe that there is a more productive tool out there that ASP.NET 2. There are plenty of inexpensive ASP.NET + SQL Server hosting options out there. I use one for my own domain and the same one for a non-profit that I do programming for. Frequently development cost is considered not to be an issue, because it's donated. But maintenance, and the possibility of having to pay for the maintenance, should always be a factor. On the other hand, there may be other good reasons than hosting costs that drive a customer's requirement for a specific technology. I would certainly ask the question!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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jasperp wrote:
PS: Microsoft had a product like PHP/ MSQL a while ago - it was called ASP v1.0 and MS Access
Spoken like a true zealot that doesn't know what they are talking about.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]