Genetics Question

Christian Graus

I guess the other question is, why do we age ? The answer probably is, if we were indestructable, and we could still breed, the world would have been overpopulated a long time ago.

Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )

Marc Clifton

Mircea Grelus wrote:

It regenerates blood cells, skin, bones,

The liver too. It's an interesting thing--you can remove half a person's liver and it will regenerate. Quite painful, I hear though. Marc

Thyme In The Country
Interacx
My Blog

martin_hughes

Yeah you're right... I only type with two fingers anyway :) Still pisses me off that they won't regrow though. Stupid body.

Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007

Patrick Etc

Christian Graus wrote:

The answer probably is, if we were indestructable, and we could still breed, the world would have been overpopulated a long time ago.

It's simpler than that, really. It's because our evolution never selected for age. Meaning, we always reproduced so young that gracefully aging was never perfected. That's changing nowadays, actually. There's some evidence that even adding a few years to the reproductive cycle adds significant healthy years to the elderly (both tied to improved medical care and increased nutrient availability). I think if we were REALLY long lived, our birth rate would balance out more effectively with death rate. As it is we breed like rabbits because we die so easily and so (relatively) early.

"If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual." - Frank Herbert

martin_hughes

Don't worry about it - in fact your original post was quite funny! Truth be told I've known about what's going to happen for a while, but as the op draws cloaser I get a)more drunk and b) more angry about the inadequcies of my body to regenerate itself. 20-30 years in future I reckon it wouldn't be an issue, but today sadly it is. Ah well.

Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007

Dirk Higbee

Actually, our cells regenerate themselves every 7 years but doctors don't know why we age. One theory is, if you believe in God, as it says in the bible God set the age limit of man to 70-80 years because of all the wickedness in the world. Before that people were living to be 700-900 years old.

If you can read, you can learn

Mircea Grelus

Seriously I'd contact those scientists that were able to regenerate that man's finger, let them know about my condition and see what they think. I've seen a video of theirs but haven't been able to find the link. They've also been able to create an esophagus using pig bladder as well, that when surgically implemented it forces the esophagus to regenerate onto itself.

Cheers, Mircea "Pay people peanuts and you get monkeys" - David Ogilvy

Member 96

It can and does under the right circumstances. You must have missed it, I posted a link here to a very amazing wired science on pbs special on the subject. It was about the most astounding thing I've seen in some time. Here it is..: http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/story/48-grow_your_own_limbs.html[^] If you click on the "Body Builders" link on the right in the "Featured" section you can watch it online.

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

PIEBALDconsult

justfunnin wrote:

700-900 years old.

I heard [citation needed] they may have counted months, not years.

Member 96

Mircea Grelus wrote:

but haven't been able to find the link

See my post in this thread

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

l a u r e n

i lost the sight in my right eye and was told it wouldnt come back even after they operated to stop me losing the sight in my left eye too ... i know the feelings you have ... i got my sight back (kinda a small miracle) but it made me understand a whole bunch of stuff in life differently :suss:

"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"

Mircea Grelus

Exactly. That's what I was looking for.

Cheers, Mircea "Pay people peanuts and you get monkeys" - David Ogilvy

FyreWyrm

Sorry to hear about your condition Martin. I had a great grandfather who had both of his legs amputated because of a nerve disorder similar to paralysis. I have a degree in genetics and during my classes we talked about this somewhat. The general concensus was humans cannot regenerate full body parts because of cell specialization. When a human embryo is forming, the cells being produced are general, all-purpose cells (stem cells). As the embryo grows the cells begin to specialize becoming nerve cells, muscle cells, bone cells, etc. Once the fetus reaches about the third trimester almost all of the stem cells have become specialized. The closest thing to a stem cell in a newborn is the proto-cells in bone marrow (which produce blood cells throughout our life). So the answer to your question in short, we can't regenerate because we don't have any general cells to form specialized cells from. There are few specialized cells in the body that can divide. Skin cells, liver cells, bone marrow cells, and cancer cells are the only ones that I can think of that can reproduce. Contrary to popular belief, muscle cells DO NOT divide. Does any of that make sense? As for the "why do we age" question: three words "Programmed Cell Death". Believe it or not, our DNA is actually designed to kill us. We get wrinkles and saggy skin because the collagen and elastin protiens in our skin (which keep it tight) break down over time and our skin cells are not programmed to replenish it. Our bodies age because the cells in our organs are not programmed to mass reproduce and renew themselves. The few types of cells we have that can replenish themselves have a mechanism in them so that they only reproduce a preset number of times. After that, they die. Programmed Cell Death. And that concludes today's lecture.

martin_hughes

What you had was much more scary... I'll have 8 fingers ( well, 6 and 2 thumbs) left; jeez if it was me loosing my site, well even Mrs Martin Hughes would show some sympathy :)

Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007

l a u r e n

yeah ... heh ... all i was trying to say is it could be worse so while it definitely does suck eggs it could be worse so instead of focusing on the downsides (which we all do) i try to look at it as if i was coming from a place where what i have to deal with is good ... suppose they had originally said "you are going to lose your whole arm" but then a few days later had said "we think you will only lose two fingers" ... same place but different perception makes all the difference imho :)

"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"

martin_hughes

FyreWyrm wrote:

Does any of that make sense?

Nope!

FyreWyrm wrote:

As for the "why do we age" question: three words "Programmed Cell Death". Believe it or not, our DNA is actually designed to kill us. We get wrinkles and saggy skin because the collagen and elastin protiens in our skin (which keep it tight) break down over time and our skin cells are not programmed to replenish it.

Can we ever reboot the human genome? I mean that my DNA (or so I am told) describes my physical form completely, is there anything can cause what's missing to reappear? (Actually, I heard this happen in reptiles... so why not us?)

Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007

El Corazon

martin_hughes wrote:

Why the hell can't the body re-generate parts? The code is all there, surely, so why is there no way to reboot it?

I have written several replies, throwing each away. This is a tough question because I don't have any answers either. I know people are working for them, I even know a few of them. My situation is minor compared to you, I only lost a pancrease, and about 20 years. The latter I might gain back through hard work, but no way to know for sure. My wife would shoot me if I told her situation, but she's got both us beat. All we can do is keep plodding along and doing our part. I am still here, and that is a darned sure better thing than it could've been. Since my infection I have done side work with medical visualization because it is the only thing I can do to help. Small as it is, maybe there is some young kid with the answers that just needs a way to see the data right. That much, maybe I can help with. Well, and it keeps me going, and positive for both mine, and my wife's situation. And maybe yours as well. I don't know how to regenerate organs, or any other body parts. I know graphics, and I will do graphics until I fall over. :) I'm a lousy pep-talker, so I won't try. I was pretty damn depressed when the doctors explained just how much I have lost. But that was the past. Tomorrow? who knows? we might just get it back. I can hope at least.

_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

FyreWyrm

martin_hughes wrote:

is there anything can cause what's missing to reappear?

That's one of the questions stem cell research was trying to answer. You can thank the US government for ending that quest.

martin_hughes

You're an angel, and don't ever tell Mrs MH I said that :)

Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007

martin_hughes

Do you know what I hate most about it all? My darling wife goes through it all with me. That and I've suddenly started liking Fleetwood Mac's "Everywhere". :) I think when they're gone I'll hate Fleetwood Mac, if Mrs. MH will let me - she's my rock. I wish I were with her now instead of 300 miles away on business; but given she'd probably hit me for expressing such sentiments.... maybe not :)

Me: Can you see the "up" arrow? User:Errr...ummm....no. Me: Can you see an arrow that points upwards? User: Oh yes, I see it now! -Excerpt from a support call taken by me, 08/31/2007