WWII....
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Edd wrote: When you think about what the germans were up to, it horrofies me. If these people thougth that if you didn't have green eyes blonde hair you were inferior and shold die, imagine what would have happended once they conquered the world. Ahh, they weren't anymore cruel than anyone else. Remember the Chilean dictator? Aparthid in Africa? Japanese in China? Even the Israelis treat the Palestinians as second class citizens! How racist is that? We just have to face the facts.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Remember the Chilean dictator? Aparthid in Africa? And in another message you wrote: Every time Americans kick a country's a** well, they always reform and become good citizens history has shown. And wasn't CIA involved with Pinochet? What were the countries that didn't apply sanctions against south african government? And do you remember who decide that mr. Saddam Hussein was a good democratic leader that could help in the fight against Iran? I'm Italian and I've deep respect to all the Americans that fight and died (with many Italian partisans) to free my country from fascism and nazism, but I think that the credit they gain with those actions can't stop the criticism against their errors. History is not all black (bad) or white (good). Only action movies work in this way, and recognize errors is a good way to avoid to made the same mistakes in the future. -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD
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Thanks Edd. Unhappily they didn't so I still can reply to you. Everybody is now shouting at palestina killing an "innocent child" here and there. But nuking an entire city is oh so cool if the US does it? Shut up you ridiculous pathetic hypocritical whiner. What the US did in Japan is far beyond questionable. They tested new technology. I wonder what drives you to such a statement. Do you want to gather replies? Did some asshole with a german passport just give you a bad day? Do you really, honestly believe each and all Germans where Nazi fanatics that wanted nothing else than rule the world? This is sucha pathetic point of view - very comfortable, isn't it? P.S. This post definitely belongs to the soapbox. P.P.S. This is a post that definitely
We are ugly but we have the music Leonhard Cohen [sighist]
peterchen wrote: What the US did in Japan is far beyond questionable. They tested new technology. I'm glad someone else can see that. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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Mr Morden wrote: with a name like Marvinski I assume you are not a true American then? My grandparents came to this country in the 1920's. People from my family served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. I think the Marvinski name has earned the title of American.
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Christian Graus wrote: Yes, I did. Are you trying to get my riled up for your amusement? So are you saying we should have gone in there and slaughtered the women and children by hand? Because thats what we would have had to do becuase they would have attacked us! I'm really begining to think that your comments are just put ons or trolls to get me to respond. Either that, or you are a overly protective parent who imagines everything in history happening to him and his family. Christian Graus wrote: Why not drop the first in an area that would kill less people, or kill soldiers ? Because then the Japanese would not understand the true effects of the weapons. Remember it took 2!, yes 2 bombs to get them to finally quit!! We understood how crazy they were because no other country even had kamakazi pilots until the Japanese came along.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Are you trying to get my riled up for your amusement? No. this is doing wonders for my post count though :-) Martin Marvinski wrote: So are you saying we should have gone in there and slaughtered the women and children by hand? Is that what I said ? No. Martin Marvinski wrote: Either that, or you are a overly protective parent who imagines everything in history happening to him and his family. I am able to consider the correct course of events by considering the effect on all human beings involved, and their degree of blame for their situation, if that is what you mean. Martin Marvinski wrote: Because then the Japanese would not understand the true effects of the weapons. Neither did you guys, that is my core point. So you built two different bombs, dropped them on two civilian populated cities and took notes. Martin Marvinski wrote: Remember it took 2!, yes 2 bombs to get them to finally quit!! We understood how crazy they were because no other country even had kamakazi pilots until the Japanese came along. Their culture is hard to understand, but the US equally glorifies dying for your country, which IMO is the dumbest idea in the world. Either way, the fact remains had you killed some of the leaders with the first nuke, it would have been more likely that they would surrender instead of killing a bunch of people they did not know. It would also have been morally more justifiable. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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There were no innocent germans. You should be ashame of yourself. I'd advice you to watch quite a bit of history channel and you will be convinced. When you think about what the germans were up to, it horrofies me. If these people thougth that if you didn't have green eyes blonde hair you were inferior and shold die, imagine what would have happended once they conquered the world. I am sure they would have started having people in places like africa and asia as meat for dinner.Do u know about medical experiments of unimaginable cruelty? You try and get yourself informed before u refer to germans as innocent. I personally am still suspicious of them.
Edd, you really need to spend some time outside of your country, on your own. maybe meet some people you hate just by label of their passport. Or maybe you just go and shout "Kill Bush" in front of the white house, just to prove it's really easy for everybody to do something against the powers to be. Edd wrote: I personally am still suspicious of them. Good so! We will get you one day... :mad:
We are ugly but we have the music Leonhard Cohen [sighist]
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Because unlike the US, our soliders are not carried away with mindless jingoism and are therefore more likely to view a prisoner as a human being as stuck with the situation as they are. Add a better sense of humour, and I can't see why you'd want anything less. Of course, this is just getting dumb, but you asked... :-) Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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So those people in Dresden... The farmers, the paperboys, the schoolgirls, the housewives, the Jews hiding from the Nazis, the soldier conscripted against his will, the 3 day old babies. None of them were innocent? Why because their government was bad? So that means you are guilty of corruption every time one of your government officials takes a bribe. That means you are guilty of manslaughter when government incompetence causes a death. Come on. Get real!
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There were no innocent germans. You should be ashame of yourself. I'd advice you to watch quite a bit of history channel and you will be convinced. When you think about what the germans were up to, it horrofies me. If these people thougth that if you didn't have green eyes blonde hair you were inferior and shold die, imagine what would have happended once they conquered the world. I am sure they would have started having people in places like africa and asia as meat for dinner.Do u know about medical experiments of unimaginable cruelty? You try and get yourself informed before u refer to germans as innocent. I personally am still suspicious of them.
Edd wrote: There were no innocent germans You seem to lack any knowledge about German Resistance people. Or are you one of those people who seems to think that being evil is second nature to Germans no matter what their actions actually are ?
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I think Cristian is very ignorant of these fact. There are films of japanese civilians jumping from cliffs instead of living under occupation. But I doubt the bombs weren't ready when the war in europe was over. I think it was a delebrate effort on the part of the allies not to drop the bomb on germans, cause they were europians(prejudise of the worst kind).I still recent them for that. And still hate germans.
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Very true. Every thing we see is coloured by our own set of cultural biases. Cultural bias is a very hard thing to break, from childhood we are told the right way to live, how we should treat people, manners, all that stuff. People from non-western countries are exactly the same. They are brought up with their own set of cultural biases. When it comes to a difference of opinion (on any scale) they think they are right, we think we are right. Tolerance is the art of letting the other person exist within their own culture, even if we disagree with them. All this talk of nuking, and POWs, and the like. Its all a front for intolerance as far as I'm concerned. I also think that its more prevelant at the moment because of Sep11. People like Edd, and Martin are simply directing their insecurities at a cultural group which they can use to blame for all their own, and their nations instabilities. Its always easy for a bigot to target those who are different instead of learning the fine art of tolerance.
Mr Morden wrote: People like Edd, and Martin are simply directing their insecurities at a cultural group which they can use to blame for all their own, and their nations instabilities. Its always easy for a bigot to target those who are different instead of learning the fine art of tolerance. That's the whole trouth ! Olli
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There were no innocent germans. You should be ashame of yourself. I'd advice you to watch quite a bit of history channel and you will be convinced. When you think about what the germans were up to, it horrofies me. If these people thougth that if you didn't have green eyes blonde hair you were inferior and shold die, imagine what would have happended once they conquered the world. I am sure they would have started having people in places like africa and asia as meat for dinner.Do u know about medical experiments of unimaginable cruelty? You try and get yourself informed before u refer to germans as innocent. I personally am still suspicious of them.
Edd wrote: There were no innocent germans. You should be ashame of yourself. I'd advice you to watch quite a bit of history channel and you will be convinced. You know all the germans alive in 1945? How could you judge them and say that they were all guilty? I live in Italy, do you think the same about us? I don't watch history channel, but I talked with my granparents and other old people and, while many people were fascist (and nazist in germany), many other didn't like that. Some fight. In Italy many people were partisans and many of them have been killed by fascists and nazists, and also in germany there were people against the nazism and people who tried to stop that crazy government (do you remember mr.Shindler?). Living under this kind of government is something different than the way of live we are used to. You are controlled and other people, even your friends, could be spies. It's the same in today's Iraq, North Corea and other countries. Sometimes racism, nationalism and other kinds of fanatism arise among disperate people (and in Germany this happened after a long economical crisis following WWI) and some leaders (like hitler, mussolini and milosevic, but also, in a less cruent way, like le pen, bossi and others) exploit that to get the power. Edd wrote: I personally am still suspicious of them. This is crazy! I know some germans, and I "judge" them by what I can understand talking and living with them. You can't judge someone by the place where he was born! There are racist people also in Italy, in other European countries and even in the US (are you also suspicious of all the white people from Alabama?). They're stupid people. -- Looking for a new screen-saver? Try FOYD: http://digilander.iol.it/FOYD
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Thanks Edd. Unhappily they didn't so I still can reply to you. Everybody is now shouting at palestina killing an "innocent child" here and there. But nuking an entire city is oh so cool if the US does it? Shut up you ridiculous pathetic hypocritical whiner. What the US did in Japan is far beyond questionable. They tested new technology. I wonder what drives you to such a statement. Do you want to gather replies? Did some asshole with a german passport just give you a bad day? Do you really, honestly believe each and all Germans where Nazi fanatics that wanted nothing else than rule the world? This is sucha pathetic point of view - very comfortable, isn't it? P.S. This post definitely belongs to the soapbox. P.P.S. This is a post that definitely
We are ugly but we have the music Leonhard Cohen [sighist]
peterchen wrote: Do you want to gather replies? A question, wasn't Mr.Edd a talking horse?? This could be the explanation of his point of , uh, view... P.S.: He hates me anyway, that's just because i was born in Germany... who is now the real nazi, me or him..??
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Thanks Edd. Unhappily they didn't so I still can reply to you. Everybody is now shouting at palestina killing an "innocent child" here and there. But nuking an entire city is oh so cool if the US does it? Shut up you ridiculous pathetic hypocritical whiner. What the US did in Japan is far beyond questionable. They tested new technology. I wonder what drives you to such a statement. Do you want to gather replies? Did some asshole with a german passport just give you a bad day? Do you really, honestly believe each and all Germans where Nazi fanatics that wanted nothing else than rule the world? This is sucha pathetic point of view - very comfortable, isn't it? P.S. This post definitely belongs to the soapbox. P.P.S. This is a post that definitely
We are ugly but we have the music Leonhard Cohen [sighist]
peterchen wrote: What the US did in Japan is far beyond questionable. They tested new technology. I'm not condoning what the US did in WW2 but I will say that if the Japanese or Germans had that technology, they would've used it. The US were simply victims of being the first to use the atomic bomb. One defence of the US decision to bomb Japan was that Japan itself was preparing its own weapons of mass destruction. The US may well have anticipated a biological attack on its west coast due to the actions of the notorious Unit 731. They proposed using balloon bombs to carry disease to America and they had a plan in the summer of 1945 to use kamikaze pilots to dump plague infected fleas on San Diego. Some Japanese generals proposed loading the balloons with weapons of biological warfare, to create epidemics of plague or anthrax in the United States. Other army units wanted to send cattle plague virus to wipe out the American livestock industry or grain smut to wipe out the crops. As it happened, 9,000 balloons each carried four incendiary and one antipersonnel bomb across the Pacific on the jet stream to create forest fires and terror from Oregon to Michigan. As the end of the war approached in 1945, Unit 731 embarked on its wildest scheme; codenamed Cherry Blossoms at Night, the plan was to use kamikaze pilots to infest California with the plague. Toshimi Mizobuchi, who was an instructor for new recruits in Unit 731, said the idea was to use 20 of the 500 new troops who arrived in Harbin in July 1945. A submarine was to take a few of them to the seas off Southern California, and then they were to fly in a plane carried on board the submarine and contaminate San Diego with plague-infected fleas. The target date was to be Sept. 22, 1945. As it happened, the fleet of submarine seaplane carriers that assembled was assigned to launch torpedos at the locks in the Panama canal, but that was changed to attack the US fleet at Ulith just as the war ended. As the Japanese army retreated from China as the war was ending, plague-infected animals were released and caused outbreaks of the plague that killed at least 30,000 people in the Harbin area from 1946 through 1948. In the autumn of 1945, MacArthur acceded to granting immunity to members of Unit 731 in exchange for data of research on biological warfare. "The value to the U.S. of Japanese BW data is of such importance to national security as to far outweigh the value accruing from war crimes' prosecution." The BW inf
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Mr Morden wrote: with a name like Marvinski I assume you are not a true American then? My grandparents came to this country in the 1920's. People from my family served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. I think the Marvinski name has earned the title of American.
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Mr Morden wrote: with a name like Marvinski I assume you are not a true American then? My grandparents came to this country in the 1920's. People from my family served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. I think the Marvinski name has earned the title of American.
Martin Marvinski wrote: People from my family served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. I think the Marvinski name has earned the title of American. I'm pleased that the price of citizenship here is not measured in the blood of others. Christian I am completely intolerant of stupidity. Stupidity is, of course, anything that doesn't conform to my way of thinking. - Jamie Hale - 29/05/2002 Half the reason people switch away from VB is to find out what actually goes on.. and then like me they find out that they weren't quite as good as they thought - they've been nannied. - Alex, 13 June 2002
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I don't mean to offend anyone,but i think the allies in wwII should have delayed the war for the couple months needed to finish the 'A' bomb?. I think if there was ever any nation that deserved the atomic bomb, Germany was the one. The Japanese got what they deserved,but those Nazi loving germans should have gotten it too. People who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
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I don't mean to offend anyone,but i think the allies in wwII should have delayed the war for the couple months needed to finish the 'A' bomb?. I think if there was ever any nation that deserved the atomic bomb, Germany was the one. The Japanese got what they deserved,but those Nazi loving germans should have gotten it too. People who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
:omg: :wtf: ! Edd wrote: the allies in wwII should have delayed the war for the couple months * Do you think that during this time the Red Army would have stay nicely on its position ? * Do you think at all the prisoners and deportees in camps waiting for their liberation before dying ? * Do you think at the human cost for allied soldiers stabilizing a front for month ? * Don't you think that with more time Germany could have deployed more of its new weapons (Me163, Me262, Hs162, antiaircraft missiles...) , might have succeeded to defend its airspace against any bomber ? Edd wrote: those Nazi loving germans should have gotten it too * Do you know that "Strategic bombing" is targetted against civilians ? children, women, elders ? Hopitals and schools ? How may they deserve to die ? * Where the difference between the 80,000 deads of Hiroshima and the 135,000 of Dresden ? Do you know the number of cities destroyed in Germany ? Uranium and Phosphorus are thrown to destroy manhood as well. * What Nazis deserved was a war against France and UK till 1936, when Hitler rearmed RhineLand. Unfortunatly, UK was an "appeaser" and France, paralized by social struggles, was too shocked by the loss of WWI to declare a new war. Just for Information, USA waited December 1941 and a german declaration of war before fighting against Nazism. Edd wrote: People who forget their history are doomed to repeat it Yeah, that true, that's why History should be learned. Y'a cool jouer avec Maradona qui fait tourner gratos dans les vestiaires - Merci Maradona ! - Y'a pas d'quoi ! Ludwig Von 88, "Goal Di Pele"
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Christian Graus wrote: But it's not the same as dropping it on a city, to see how many you can kill and the long term effects on those who live. Truman gave the Japanese a warning before we dropped the first bomb. We told them something terrible was going to happen. And anyway would it have been better for us to fight for anouther 3 years in guerilla warfare against those same women, and childern who were being prepared to fight against us? I bet you didn't know that, but the Japanese were training women and childern to fight Americans!! By dropping the bomb, we saved many more lives.
Martin Marvinski wrote: Truman gave the Japanese a warning before we dropped the first bomb. We told them something terrible was going to happen for christ's sake, this sounds exactly like bin laden's threats that "something terrible is going to happen to USA". so, how come that americans didn't expect that those idiots are going to crash into twin towers? besides, stating that "there are no innocent germans" is like saying that there are no innocent americans because a bunch of people commited war crimes in vietnam. and don't even get me started on CIA, and their support to all kinds of dictators in south america. yes, and talibans too, when they were fighting russians. there is no "collective guilt", there can only be collective reponsibility, but that's not the same.
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There were no innocent germans. You should be ashame of yourself. I'd advice you to watch quite a bit of history channel and you will be convinced. When you think about what the germans were up to, it horrofies me. If these people thougth that if you didn't have green eyes blonde hair you were inferior and shold die, imagine what would have happended once they conquered the world. I am sure they would have started having people in places like africa and asia as meat for dinner.Do u know about medical experiments of unimaginable cruelty? You try and get yourself informed before u refer to germans as innocent. I personally am still suspicious of them.
Edd wrote: There were no innocent germans :wtf: Collective punishment ! As Stalin did ! And it's definitively racist condemning somebody because of its nationality. Edd wrote: I'd advice you to watch quite a bit of history channel Yeah you should too, and you would perhaps discover the role of the "Thaelmann bataillon" during Spanish civil war. In your own History, you may also discover the Genocide made on native Americans. I almost forgot Slavery which was also a nice page of the American history. There are really few folks who may not ashamed for its history. Ours are not part of these ones. Y'a cool jouer avec Maradona qui fait tourner gratos dans les vestiaires - Merci Maradona ! - Y'a pas d'quoi ! Ludwig Von 88, "Goal Di Pele"
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I don't mean to offend anyone,but i think the allies in wwII should have delayed the war for the couple months needed to finish the 'A' bomb?. I think if there was ever any nation that deserved the atomic bomb, Germany was the one. The Japanese got what they deserved,but those Nazi loving germans should have gotten it too. People who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
I am truely astounded by your question, grow up will you. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"