Source control recs
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I know you said no open source but... ...your IT guys need to get clued up. Subversion is by far the best source control system around and in the years that we've been using it we've never needed any support. There's more than enough online documentation for most issues and the excellent usability/stability/features make it the number one choice in my opinion. Fight for it, you won't regret it!
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Other than the fact that the IT department needs to back up the server providing storaqe, why would anyone want IT messing with the source code control system? The way I see it - you are small shop, so you write the code, you test the code, you release the code. IT has no say in the matter and all decisions are internal. So, you need a source control system that the developers are happy to use.
Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Hurtling toward a government of the stupid, by the stupid, for the stupid we go. —Michelle Malkin
Charlie, You're clearly using that rarest of commodities, "common sense". Clearly Mike works in an Entreprise level shop, where people have to deal with actionable items, and are busy archetectualizing value add-ins to the Company. In an atmosphere like that, there's no room for the potential errors and pitfalls that foolish ideas like "common sense" could instigate!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Here is the situation: A small group of devs (3) have been maintaining a couple of small C++ apps and one large-ish VB6 desktop app for several years using no source control system. They have been tasked with a complete re-write of the VB app with major additions to the product. It remains a desktop app. They will likely use VS2005 or VS2008 and code in C#. Also the team will likely expand to 5 or 6. The company's IT department is loathe to use free open source software on the servers sighting a fear of "no support". They cannot be reasoned with. What do you folks recommend for a reasonably priced, well supported and well rounded solution for source / revision control? TIA
Like the others mention, subversion is probably your best bet for a group this size. I have heard good things about Perforce as well. An alternate solution: 1) Get the subversion source and build it at home. 2) Change the name, icons, bitmaps in the source to something like "MilliKun Team Enterprise Source Server, from MillKun Inc.". 3) Then create a webpage (use your google mail account for this) for MillKun Inc, and list your "products". Make sure to charge somewhere north of $10,000 for Enterprise Platimnum Level Support. 4) Add a PayPal link so you can charge money. 5) PROFIT!!!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Like the others mention, subversion is probably your best bet for a group this size. I have heard good things about Perforce as well. An alternate solution: 1) Get the subversion source and build it at home. 2) Change the name, icons, bitmaps in the source to something like "MilliKun Team Enterprise Source Server, from MillKun Inc.". 3) Then create a webpage (use your google mail account for this) for MillKun Inc, and list your "products". Make sure to charge somewhere north of $10,000 for Enterprise Platimnum Level Support. 4) Add a PayPal link so you can charge money. 5) PROFIT!!!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Here is the situation: A small group of devs (3) have been maintaining a couple of small C++ apps and one large-ish VB6 desktop app for several years using no source control system. They have been tasked with a complete re-write of the VB app with major additions to the product. It remains a desktop app. They will likely use VS2005 or VS2008 and code in C#. Also the team will likely expand to 5 or 6. The company's IT department is loathe to use free open source software on the servers sighting a fear of "no support". They cannot be reasoned with. What do you folks recommend for a reasonably priced, well supported and well rounded solution for source / revision control? TIA
We just purchased Surround SCM from Seapine. When doing the eval, I was also very impressed with Accurev. If they have MSDN Team Suite they could just use team server.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I know you said no open source but... ...your IT guys need to get clued up. Subversion is by far the best source control system around and in the years that we've been using it we've never needed any support. There's more than enough online documentation for most issues and the excellent usability/stability/features make it the number one choice in my opinion. Fight for it, you won't regret it!
I totally disagree. When doing an extensive review, Subversion failed miserably. At one point, we ended up with a corrupt source tree. One engineer using it lost history out of blue. It has other problems as well with tracking ownership of files.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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As sad as Jim's suggestion is... there is some merit to it. :)
Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Hurtling toward a government of the stupid, by the stupid, for the stupid we go. —Michelle Malkin
Think of the comedic value! And think of the irony if he could use one of his companies machines to act as a web server to host the www.MillKun.com site!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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We just purchased Surround SCM from Seapine. When doing the eval, I was also very impressed with Accurev. If they have MSDN Team Suite they could just use team server.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
A number of people here have complained about how byzantine the Team Server/Suite stuff is and how it's pretty flaky.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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A number of people here have complained about how byzantine the Team Server/Suite stuff is and how it's pretty flaky.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
My experience as well, which is why we rejected it. However, for pure .NET development and if you already have the Team Suite, it's worth a try (it's certainly not worth paying for otherwise.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Think of the comedic value! And think of the irony if he could use one of his companies machines to act as a web server to host the www.MillKun.com site!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Here is the situation: A small group of devs (3) have been maintaining a couple of small C++ apps and one large-ish VB6 desktop app for several years using no source control system. They have been tasked with a complete re-write of the VB app with major additions to the product. It remains a desktop app. They will likely use VS2005 or VS2008 and code in C#. Also the team will likely expand to 5 or 6. The company's IT department is loathe to use free open source software on the servers sighting a fear of "no support". They cannot be reasoned with. What do you folks recommend for a reasonably priced, well supported and well rounded solution for source / revision control? TIA
Mike Mullikin wrote:
The company's IT department is loathe to use free open source software on the servers sighting a fear of "no support".
And how does that differ from going so many years with no VCS at all?
"Love people and use things, not love things and use people." - Unknown
"The brick walls are there for a reason...to stop the people who don't want it badly enough." - Randy Pausch
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I also recommend the Visual SVN plugin for Visual Studio. It's cheap, and works very well. That together with the free Tortoise SVN client, and you have a very nice setup. The Visual SVN guys also maintain a free server version of Subversion. You don't have to go through the hassle of getting apache to play nicely with subversion. Just install and click a few buttons, and you have a SVN server ready to go. See here http://www.visualsvn.com/[^]
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I also recommend the Visual SVN plugin for Visual Studio. It's cheap, and works very well. That together with the free Tortoise SVN client, and you have a very nice setup. The Visual SVN guys also maintain a free server version of Subversion. You don't have to go through the hassle of getting apache to play nicely with subversion. Just install and click a few buttons, and you have a SVN server ready to go. See here http://www.visualsvn.com/[^]
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
The Visual SVN guys also maintain a free server version of Subversion. You don't have to go through the hassle of getting apache to play nicely with subversion. Just install and click a few buttons, and you have a SVN server ready to go.
It rocks. I use it for my personal projects. Highly recommended. Very easy to use.
Jon Sagara Some see the glass as half-empty, some see the glass as half-full. I see the glass as too big. -- George Carlin .NET Blog | Personal Blog | Articles
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Here is the situation: A small group of devs (3) have been maintaining a couple of small C++ apps and one large-ish VB6 desktop app for several years using no source control system. They have been tasked with a complete re-write of the VB app with major additions to the product. It remains a desktop app. They will likely use VS2005 or VS2008 and code in C#. Also the team will likely expand to 5 or 6. The company's IT department is loathe to use free open source software on the servers sighting a fear of "no support". They cannot be reasoned with. What do you folks recommend for a reasonably priced, well supported and well rounded solution for source / revision control? TIA
Take a look at SourceGear Vault[^].
Jon Sagara Some see the glass as half-empty, some see the glass as half-full. I see the glass as too big. -- George Carlin .NET Blog | Personal Blog | Articles
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I know you said no open source but... ...your IT guys need to get clued up. Subversion is by far the best source control system around and in the years that we've been using it we've never needed any support. There's more than enough online documentation for most issues and the excellent usability/stability/features make it the number one choice in my opinion. Fight for it, you won't regret it!
C h r i s C h a m b e r s wrote:
Subversion is by far the best source control system around
Now, that's a slight exagaration. It is not bad, especially for a small team, but far from "the best around".
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Here is the situation: A small group of devs (3) have been maintaining a couple of small C++ apps and one large-ish VB6 desktop app for several years using no source control system. They have been tasked with a complete re-write of the VB app with major additions to the product. It remains a desktop app. They will likely use VS2005 or VS2008 and code in C#. Also the team will likely expand to 5 or 6. The company's IT department is loathe to use free open source software on the servers sighting a fear of "no support". They cannot be reasoned with. What do you folks recommend for a reasonably priced, well supported and well rounded solution for source / revision control? TIA
Mike Mullikin wrote:
he company's IT department is loathe to use free open source software on the servers sighting a fear of "no support".
Absurd. As if the support on a commercial product is worth anything. :rolleyes: Marc
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I totally disagree. When doing an extensive review, Subversion failed miserably. At one point, we ended up with a corrupt source tree. One engineer using it lost history out of blue. It has other problems as well with tracking ownership of files.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
At one point, we ended up with a corrupt source tree.
You didn't set it to use the old database format which should not be used, under any circumstances, on a network share? That combo produces side effects like what you mention. It's also marked in bold and red in the documentation... :)
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
he company's IT department is loathe to use free open source software on the servers sighting a fear of "no support".
Absurd. As if the support on a commercial product is worth anything. :rolleyes: Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
As if the support on a commercial product is worth anything.
Well it is the product is from oh, never mind. :doh:
BDF People don't mind being mean; but they never want to be ridiculous. -- Moliere
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Take a look at SourceGear Vault[^].
Jon Sagara Some see the glass as half-empty, some see the glass as half-full. I see the glass as too big. -- George Carlin .NET Blog | Personal Blog | Articles
Vault is what I would recommend as well. Easy to use, doesn't cost much, and, well....just pretty nice :)
:badger:
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I totally disagree. When doing an extensive review, Subversion failed miserably. At one point, we ended up with a corrupt source tree. One engineer using it lost history out of blue. It has other problems as well with tracking ownership of files.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
I can't believe that an extensive review would find that Subversion failed miserably as a version control system. I hate to say it but the problems you saw must have been due to operator error.