MCPD or MCSD
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Hi, If you have/planning to have one of those certificates which one will it be and why and what is the difference?? I know you'd say, go to Microsoft's website to find the answer but I want your own experience and maybe some useful book names you went through for the exams. Thank you!
We will either find a way, or make one! (\ /) (- .-) C(''')(''')
Well, one demonstrates your expertise in developing leading-edge enterprise solutions by using the Microsoft .NET Framework 1.0 and 1.1, and the other is a Microsoft Certified Police Department. I'd go with the police department.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
A lot of places value them simply for the partner points in my experience.
That's precisly why I'm having to do it...
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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Hi, If you have/planning to have one of those certificates which one will it be and why and what is the difference?? I know you'd say, go to Microsoft's website to find the answer but I want your own experience and maybe some useful book names you went through for the exams. Thank you!
We will either find a way, or make one! (\ /) (- .-) C(''')(''')
I'm currently studying for MCSD as a part of our Gold Partner requirements. While initially I thought that it would be a waste of time, reading trough the cours materials is actually a fairly useful exercise. There were several areas where I "knew what I was doing", but in which turned out to be "sloppy"
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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You are right, but who is the good developer between you. I also failed twice on the Desktop Support exams, but I had success with Programming. I think the time given for the exams is very short and limited, espacially for the Development Exams. About Testkings, I don't think they are a good thing. But it does not means that a Certificate is useless. If you get it with knowledge, it can be very usefull-
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I'm currently studying for MCSD as a part of our Gold Partner requirements. While initially I thought that it would be a waste of time, reading trough the cours materials is actually a fairly useful exercise. There were several areas where I "knew what I was doing", but in which turned out to be "sloppy"
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
I must say that earning the certificate has nothing to do with knowledge. Testking type of prep is the easiest and safest way to pass, but, once you have the title, you are suposed to perform at a level that certainly isn't at the reach of those that passed just with TestKing. So, IMHO, if you need the certification, go the Testking way. THEN, if you want/need to really know what you're doing, go to the library and/or get some experience. I think the training kit books are excellent. Codeproject is better. I've been into .Net development for over 6 years, and most of what I know I owe it to Codeproject. Finally, may I add that the best developers I've worked with have no M$ certification :P
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No, it's a self portait :-D
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Trollslayer wrote:
No, it's a self portait Big Grin
At least it's not an evil jumping cat ;P
We will either find a way, or make one! (\ /) (- .-) C(''')(''')
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You must get MCTS first then you can get MCPD. MCSD is old, from the time of .Net 1.1. If you achieve to get them both, that means that you are have a very good knowledge of .Net. And that is very usefull for your future Job. I have no University Degree, but with my Highschool and a MCTS Certificate I managed to get a job in Switzerland. So I can suggest you give it a try. I know many companies that work with .Net, and they don't care at all in which Univers. you have studied. Only if you own a certificate, you can convince them you are a good .Net Developer. Anyway, having a MS Certificate is allways good and positive.
I guess I'm going with MCPD then. Thank you!
We will either find a way, or make one! (\ /) (- .-) C(''')(''')
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I have over 6 years of experience in ASP.net and VB.net and I failed the test with missing 1 point. On the other hand, I know a friend who has only one year experience but studied TestKing questions and he passed the exam. These certifications are useless. You can get many of them if you solve enough TestKing questions before going to the exam.
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Hi, If you have/planning to have one of those certificates which one will it be and why and what is the difference?? I know you'd say, go to Microsoft's website to find the answer but I want your own experience and maybe some useful book names you went through for the exams. Thank you!
We will either find a way, or make one! (\ /) (- .-) C(''')(''')
Basically MCPD is the new MCSD. MCSD certs are geared towards .NET 1.x developers. If you are using .NET 2.0 or above you should consider one of the MCPD certs: Windows, Web, or Enterprise. IMHO, certs are nice to have but not required. Remember, there is no substitute for experience. You can be a proficient or even expert .NET developer without any help from certifications. But if you are a less experienced developer, and new to .NET then becoming certified will help you along the learning curve and MAYBE help you land a new job. I used many different sources to prepare for my MCPD: Web. Here they are in order of importance: Experience(real world and experimental), MSDN/Web, Professional ASP.NET 2.0(WROX book), Measure Up and Self Test practice exams, Instructor-led course from HOTT[^], MCPD Self-Paced Training Kit, and the MS Study Guides.
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I must say that earning the certificate has nothing to do with knowledge. Testking type of prep is the easiest and safest way to pass, but, once you have the title, you are suposed to perform at a level that certainly isn't at the reach of those that passed just with TestKing. So, IMHO, if you need the certification, go the Testking way. THEN, if you want/need to really know what you're doing, go to the library and/or get some experience. I think the training kit books are excellent. Codeproject is better. I've been into .Net development for over 6 years, and most of what I know I owe it to Codeproject. Finally, may I add that the best developers I've worked with have no M$ certification :P
I would respectfully disagree. While it is true that a certificate by itself does not indicate whether a person excels in the matter, an honest candidate would follow a course of study that leads to the certification and benefit in the process by gaining not only knowledge but also an increase in quality of the knowledge he/she already has. In general our experience provides knowledge in certain focused areas that widen as we have to solve more problems, but theory fills in the gaps and provides hints on better approaches for future challenges by showing what goes on behind the scene and how it works. I have met people on both sides, most of them favoring experience over a theoretical foundation, but also the other way around. In reality, a professional approach does not rule out either one of them, and hiring managers draw conclusions from our opinions on them as well. An experienced developer who is able to give examples of his proficiency shows them he is willing to go the extra mile by producing a related certification. In some cases, it can also expedite the hiring process. In summary, a certification could potentially be a good thing, but never a bad one. The question would then be: why not get it if you can?
Juanfer
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I would respectfully disagree. While it is true that a certificate by itself does not indicate whether a person excels in the matter, an honest candidate would follow a course of study that leads to the certification and benefit in the process by gaining not only knowledge but also an increase in quality of the knowledge he/she already has. In general our experience provides knowledge in certain focused areas that widen as we have to solve more problems, but theory fills in the gaps and provides hints on better approaches for future challenges by showing what goes on behind the scene and how it works. I have met people on both sides, most of them favoring experience over a theoretical foundation, but also the other way around. In reality, a professional approach does not rule out either one of them, and hiring managers draw conclusions from our opinions on them as well. An experienced developer who is able to give examples of his proficiency shows them he is willing to go the extra mile by producing a related certification. In some cases, it can also expedite the hiring process. In summary, a certification could potentially be a good thing, but never a bad one. The question would then be: why not get it if you can?
Juanfer
I see your point, and I do agree that certification courses are a very good learning tool, but relying on the premise of "an honest candidate" is what bothers me. Sadly, I've met both excellent and terrible developers with and without certifications and/or degrees, which makes me consider those, at the least, misleading. Still, it is true that some recruiters do believe in them, so, as you said, why not get it if you can? Plus I consider myself fairly honest... In my case, when I took into consideration getting certified on .Net, it was a matter of money. You've in fact made me wonder if I should get certified - Now that I can afford it, I think I'll put my neurons back to work on it! Thanks Juanfer for lighting that spark in my mind again!
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Basically MCPD is the new MCSD. MCSD certs are geared towards .NET 1.x developers. If you are using .NET 2.0 or above you should consider one of the MCPD certs: Windows, Web, or Enterprise. IMHO, certs are nice to have but not required. Remember, there is no substitute for experience. You can be a proficient or even expert .NET developer without any help from certifications. But if you are a less experienced developer, and new to .NET then becoming certified will help you along the learning curve and MAYBE help you land a new job. I used many different sources to prepare for my MCPD: Web. Here they are in order of importance: Experience(real world and experimental), MSDN/Web, Professional ASP.NET 2.0(WROX book), Measure Up and Self Test practice exams, Instructor-led course from HOTT[^], MCPD Self-Paced Training Kit, and the MS Study Guides.
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Hi, If you have/planning to have one of those certificates which one will it be and why and what is the difference?? I know you'd say, go to Microsoft's website to find the answer but I want your own experience and maybe some useful book names you went through for the exams. Thank you!
We will either find a way, or make one! (\ /) (- .-) C(''')(''')
Hi, If you're doing this just for the partner points then I think the MCPD is easier and possibly cheaper (fewer exams?). I got my MCPD along with one of my colleagures for the partner points... I can't remember why but I think the MCSD was either harder, or an older 'legacy' exam. There was some reason we didn't do it. MCPD was pretty easy, we sat 3 .Net based exams and we didnt' really study for them... just walked in and did our best. We chose the 'windows forms' route, because that's primarily where we develop rather than web stuff, so you'll have to choose which way to go for yourself. I don't recall if they were worth different point values though. If the MCSD is worth more points, you'll have to weigh the trade offs yourself.
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Hi, If you're doing this just for the partner points then I think the MCPD is easier and possibly cheaper (fewer exams?). I got my MCPD along with one of my colleagures for the partner points... I can't remember why but I think the MCSD was either harder, or an older 'legacy' exam. There was some reason we didn't do it. MCPD was pretty easy, we sat 3 .Net based exams and we didnt' really study for them... just walked in and did our best. We chose the 'windows forms' route, because that's primarily where we develop rather than web stuff, so you'll have to choose which way to go for yourself. I don't recall if they were worth different point values though. If the MCSD is worth more points, you'll have to weigh the trade offs yourself.
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Hi, If you have/planning to have one of those certificates which one will it be and why and what is the difference?? I know you'd say, go to Microsoft's website to find the answer but I want your own experience and maybe some useful book names you went through for the exams. Thank you!
We will either find a way, or make one! (\ /) (- .-) C(''')(''')
They are designed for different people. MCPD is designed for general devs who target either Windows or ASP.NET. When you get MCPD you get it either in Win or Web. It "marks" you as an expert in MS technologies related to either area. MCSD is for devs who are an expert in both areas (and a few others). As MS sees it MCPDs are for general devs whereas MCSD is for architects and team leads. If you get MCPD in both Win and Web then you are mostly (if not all the way) to MCSD. Now for the merits. Honestly I have a few certs and they are all but useless to me. They help you get in the door for interviews and look good on paper but they have little real bearing on day-to-day work. I've never lost a job because somebody else had a better/more certs than me. If such a case did exist then the company isn't one I'd be working for anyway. The problem with the certs is that they test your knowledge of MS technologies exclusively (available at the time the exam was written). How often in the real world do we develop apps that use only MS technologies? Not often. For example if a question on the exam asked how you might display a modal dialog in a web app you might immediately think the AJAX Toolkit but that wouldn't be an option since the toolkit wasn't available when the exam was written. What makes the tests hard is that you really have to get into the head of the test writer. Many questions on the exam have multiple right answers but you have to choose the "best" one. Best is relative to what is important and rarely do the questions make it clear. I've taken more than one test where the difference between the correct answer and the wrong answer was whether security or performance was more important. Well that depends on the test writer. In my experience the exam questions are too far off of real world to truly verify you are an expert. True story. Way back when I was a junior dev we were hiring for a sr dev position. I was responsible for the tech portion of the interview. We were using OLE, DDE and threading at the time so my questions were directed that way. We received a resume from a person who had: MCP Windows NT, MCAD, MCSD, MCSE, MCT (amongst others). We brought him in. I figured it would be a quick interview so I through out a "simple" OLE question and was ready to move on. He couldn't answer it. I was shocked so I moved on to another "simple" DDE question. Again, no answer. After a while of this he said "guess you're wondering why I can't answer these questions even thoug
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They are designed for different people. MCPD is designed for general devs who target either Windows or ASP.NET. When you get MCPD you get it either in Win or Web. It "marks" you as an expert in MS technologies related to either area. MCSD is for devs who are an expert in both areas (and a few others). As MS sees it MCPDs are for general devs whereas MCSD is for architects and team leads. If you get MCPD in both Win and Web then you are mostly (if not all the way) to MCSD. Now for the merits. Honestly I have a few certs and they are all but useless to me. They help you get in the door for interviews and look good on paper but they have little real bearing on day-to-day work. I've never lost a job because somebody else had a better/more certs than me. If such a case did exist then the company isn't one I'd be working for anyway. The problem with the certs is that they test your knowledge of MS technologies exclusively (available at the time the exam was written). How often in the real world do we develop apps that use only MS technologies? Not often. For example if a question on the exam asked how you might display a modal dialog in a web app you might immediately think the AJAX Toolkit but that wouldn't be an option since the toolkit wasn't available when the exam was written. What makes the tests hard is that you really have to get into the head of the test writer. Many questions on the exam have multiple right answers but you have to choose the "best" one. Best is relative to what is important and rarely do the questions make it clear. I've taken more than one test where the difference between the correct answer and the wrong answer was whether security or performance was more important. Well that depends on the test writer. In my experience the exam questions are too far off of real world to truly verify you are an expert. True story. Way back when I was a junior dev we were hiring for a sr dev position. I was responsible for the tech portion of the interview. We were using OLE, DDE and threading at the time so my questions were directed that way. We received a resume from a person who had: MCP Windows NT, MCAD, MCSD, MCSE, MCT (amongst others). We brought him in. I figured it would be a quick interview so I through out a "simple" OLE question and was ready to move on. He couldn't answer it. I was shocked so I moved on to another "simple" DDE question. Again, no answer. After a while of this he said "guess you're wondering why I can't answer these questions even thoug
Thank you, and your story with the candidate made me laugh :-D
We will either find a way, or make one! (\ /) (- .-) C(''')(''')