UK Drug advisor tells the truth and then loses his job.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
What side effects are you talking about?
This was quite a few years ago so I don't recall much of the finer detail.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I call bullsh*t.
Only because it does not accord with what you believe. [edit]I just noticed you got voted down for your previous reply; not by me. I'm happy to debate with you, even though we disagree. And of course your opinions are just as valid as mine.[/edit]
I don't care about down votes. Also, I'm not saying it is bullshit because I don't agree. I am calling bullshit because I smoked copious amounts of pot in college, even obscene amounts and then quit. There are no lasting side effects. It is also much easier to quit pot then cigarettes. I've quit them too. BTW, Drug advisor resigns over sacking
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
I attended a presentation some years ago on the results of a 20-year scientific study into marijuana smoking. The study revealed that it had worse side effects than tobacco and the effects lasted much longer after a regular smoker had given up.
What side effects are you talking about? I call bullshit. If you drink too much you'll get physically sick and could die. No matter how high you get you are going to wake up fine the next morning. If you drink too much, you'll feel like you were run over by train. I'm not saying pot is completely harmless. If you have mental problems you probably shouldn't use it. It is a psychoactive drug. But responsible pot use, is far safer than alcohol or cigarettes. Alcohol is very dangerous compared to pot and cigarettes are almost as addictive as heroine. Pot (which I have tried) and ecstasy (which I have not tried) are clearly safer than alcohol and less addictive than cigarettes. This is a fact. Check out this graph Either way, it should be up to you and me to decide what drugs, if any, we want to use. It should not be the job of government to decide what is OK for you to consume in your own home. Responsible drug use should not be a crime and that's the bottom line in all of this.
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Well... Debating over the worst way to destroy your brain cells, or other parts of your body? This just does not make any sense...
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
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His opinion is base on science, it is not universally shared because of all the propaganda from governments. Nobody dies, from marijuana or ecstasy. You can die simply from drinking too much alcohol. A few number of people do die from this every year. Pot has never killed anyone. Also, cigarettes are far more addicting and deadly. The government wants someone who will basically lie for them. They want a PR person, not a scientist. It is a joke.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Nobody dies, from marijuana or ecstasy.
I hate to correct you tere, but since it's a subject close to my heart (no pun intended), there is such a thing as Estacy Toxicity, which leads to heart / organ failure. Apparently the lethal dose is around 3mg/l (IIRC).. - 20 was bound to kill Additionally, cannbis IS toxic -it's just that the lethal dose is measured in kilos!
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Nobody dies, from marijuana or ecstasy.
I hate to correct you tere, but since it's a subject close to my heart (no pun intended), there is such a thing as Estacy Toxicity, which leads to heart / organ failure. Apparently the lethal dose is around 3mg/l (IIRC).. - 20 was bound to kill Additionally, cannbis IS toxic -it's just that the lethal dose is measured in kilos!
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
RichardGrimmer wrote:
I hate to correct you tere, but since it's a subject close to my heart (no pun intended), there is such a thing as Estacy Toxicity, which leads to heart / organ failure. Apparently the lethal dose is around 3mg/l (IIRC).. - 20 was bound to kill
Thanks for correcting me. When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true. I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
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RichardGrimmer wrote:
I hate to correct you tere, but since it's a subject close to my heart (no pun intended), there is such a thing as Estacy Toxicity, which leads to heart / organ failure. Apparently the lethal dose is around 3mg/l (IIRC).. - 20 was bound to kill
Thanks for correcting me. When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true. I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
You mean you haven't read about any reports of kids dying because of taking ecstasy? :wtf: You do read papers, don't you?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Sounds like the doctor that suggested the may be a link between the MMR and Autism, and wanted to investigate... Got sacked, and kicked out of the GMC so he couldn't work as a doctor anymore.
On the other hand, do you know the real story behind why he was kicked out? I don't, and most likely not the rest of the public either. For all we know, he might be a drug head, and his superiors saw that it was just an attempt to get hold of hard drugs. Or maybe the science of his initial findings was of such poor quality, that nobody wanted to take the risk of looking like fools for giving him grants to do "trip research".
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
You mean you haven't read about any reports of kids dying because of taking ecstasy? :wtf: You do read papers, don't you?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
You mean you haven't read about any reports of kids dying because of taking ecstasy? You do read papers, don't you?
No I don't papers, what is it 1996? I do remember some stories on the Internet of kids dying but it was from bad ecstasy. Something was wrong with the pills.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
You mean you haven't read about any reports of kids dying because of taking ecstasy? You do read papers, don't you?
No I don't papers, what is it 1996? I do remember some stories on the Internet of kids dying but it was from bad ecstasy. Something was wrong with the pills.
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The effects of taking ecstasy is that the body temperature rises - you basically induce a fever. As a result, when people take the stuff, they dehydrate themselves and die because of overheating. It's the good ecstasy that kills when taken in too high dosages, or if one is not careful to drink water during the intoxication. It is way easier to die by using ecstasy, than it is by using alcohol.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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RichardGrimmer wrote:
I hate to correct you tere, but since it's a subject close to my heart (no pun intended), there is such a thing as Estacy Toxicity, which leads to heart / organ failure. Apparently the lethal dose is around 3mg/l (IIRC).. - 20 was bound to kill
Thanks for correcting me. When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true. I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Thanks for correcting me. When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true.
So when you insisted that "Nobody dies, from marijuana or ecstasy." you did not actually have any idea whether it was true or not.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Thanks for correcting me. When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true.
So when you insisted that "Nobody dies, from marijuana or ecstasy." you did not actually have any idea whether it was true or not.
Well, nobody dies from Marijuana, this I know is true. Because you can't OD on it. I was mistaken about ecstasy, I was misinformed. Apparently, it can kill you, but it can also be used safely.
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The effects of taking ecstasy is that the body temperature rises - you basically induce a fever. As a result, when people take the stuff, they dehydrate themselves and die because of overheating. It's the good ecstasy that kills when taken in too high dosages, or if one is not careful to drink water during the intoxication. It is way easier to die by using ecstasy, than it is by using alcohol.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
The effects of taking ecstasy is that the body temperature rises - you basically induce a fever. As a result, when people take the stuff, they dehydrate themselves and die because of overheating. It's the good ecstasy that kills when taken in too high dosages, or if one is not careful to drink water during the intoxication.
I had heard that it is very important to drink lots of water when taking E. Also, alcohol dehydrates as well, so it is probably bad to mix them. I know less about E cause I haven't taken it. I still don't think it should be illegal, even if it is dangerous. People should still have the option of taking that risk. Its not the government's job to protect us from ourselves by putting people in jail. The drug war is a massive failure in the USA and UK. In America was have something ridiculous like 2 Million people in prison and everybody still uses drugs. It is so pointless.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
The effects of taking ecstasy is that the body temperature rises - you basically induce a fever. As a result, when people take the stuff, they dehydrate themselves and die because of overheating. It's the good ecstasy that kills when taken in too high dosages, or if one is not careful to drink water during the intoxication.
I had heard that it is very important to drink lots of water when taking E. Also, alcohol dehydrates as well, so it is probably bad to mix them. I know less about E cause I haven't taken it. I still don't think it should be illegal, even if it is dangerous. People should still have the option of taking that risk. Its not the government's job to protect us from ourselves by putting people in jail. The drug war is a massive failure in the USA and UK. In America was have something ridiculous like 2 Million people in prison and everybody still uses drugs. It is so pointless.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Its not the government's job to protect us from ourselves by putting people in jail.
It is if the government is paying for the health care needed due to drug use.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Its not the government's job to protect us from ourselves by putting people in jail.
It is if the government is paying for the health care needed due to drug use.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It is if the government is paying for the health care needed due to drug use
Right... So when a taxpaying citizen, who has a job gets busted for pot (or ecstasy) they can loose their job, loose their kids, get a criminal record and face prison. How much does this cost the tax payers? Considering penalties create rich drug gangs in Mexico doesn't the harm outweigh the nonexistent results of the drug war?
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Well, nobody dies from Marijuana, this I know is true. Because you can't OD on it. I was mistaken about ecstasy, I was misinformed. Apparently, it can kill you, but it can also be used safely.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Well, nobody dies from Marijuana, this I know is true.
Rather that is your opinion.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Because you can't OD on it.
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I was mistaken about ecstasy, I was misinformed.
So don't quote misinformation as facts.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Apparently, it can kill you, but it can also be used safely.
Safely, being a relative term, actually means that if you're lucky it won't do you any harm.
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RichardGrimmer wrote:
I hate to correct you tere, but since it's a subject close to my heart (no pun intended), there is such a thing as Estacy Toxicity, which leads to heart / organ failure. Apparently the lethal dose is around 3mg/l (IIRC).. - 20 was bound to kill
Thanks for correcting me. When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true. I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true.
I guess that's the main problem - if "The Man" is telling you it's a killer but you see all of your friend doing it with no problems, then you're likely to doubt advice...that was certainly the case with me and my wife....
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not
Generally speaking, it is - of the literally MILLIONS of pills consumed each week, the number who experience any ill effects is statistically negligible (around 70- deaths per year in the UK), but I have to say, it matters not how many other people "get away with it", when one dies close to you, it's a big deal. Please note - I'm not one of the people who thinks it should be banned, despite my wife's death and the "situation" that followed, any more than I think that rock climbing should be banned...for me the telling point was the inquest verdict - death by misadventure - i.e tried something, not expecting it to fail....also why I had charges of reckless manslaughter dropped - we weren't expecting any problems, so didn't consider it to be dangerous - in the UK I would only have been guilty of that if I considered it to be dangerous before we started....apparently....small comfort though
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
You mean you haven't read about any reports of kids dying because of taking ecstasy? :wtf: You do read papers, don't you?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Again - to be pedantic, the cause of death in most cases is not toxicity of the e themselves, but other factors schas over /under hydration, allergic rections, pre-existing heart conditions etc....in fact, AFAIK, my wife is the only recorded death from out and out toxicity in the UK.
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Well, nobody dies from Marijuana, this I know is true.
Rather that is your opinion.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Because you can't OD on it.
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I was mistaken about ecstasy, I was misinformed.
So don't quote misinformation as facts.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Apparently, it can kill you, but it can also be used safely.
Safely, being a relative term, actually means that if you're lucky it won't do you any harm.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
Perhaps, but you can also use a vaporizer to extract the THC without any smoke. Or you can cook it. So it is pretty safe. Regardless. The point is that government lies and uses propaganda. Professor Nutts got sacked (pun intended) for telling the truth. Two other scientists have resigned since this happened. And finally, the drug war is an abysmal failure and a joke.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true.
I guess that's the main problem - if "The Man" is telling you it's a killer but you see all of your friend doing it with no problems, then you're likely to doubt advice...that was certainly the case with me and my wife....
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not
Generally speaking, it is - of the literally MILLIONS of pills consumed each week, the number who experience any ill effects is statistically negligible (around 70- deaths per year in the UK), but I have to say, it matters not how many other people "get away with it", when one dies close to you, it's a big deal. Please note - I'm not one of the people who thinks it should be banned, despite my wife's death and the "situation" that followed, any more than I think that rock climbing should be banned...for me the telling point was the inquest verdict - death by misadventure - i.e tried something, not expecting it to fail....also why I had charges of reckless manslaughter dropped - we weren't expecting any problems, so didn't consider it to be dangerous - in the UK I would only have been guilty of that if I considered it to be dangerous before we started....apparently....small comfort though
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
Dude, did your wife die from ecstasy? That's awful. I'm so sorry. :((
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
Perhaps, but you can also use a vaporizer to extract the THC without any smoke. Or you can cook it. So it is pretty safe. Regardless. The point is that government lies and uses propaganda. Professor Nutts got sacked (pun intended) for telling the truth. Two other scientists have resigned since this happened. And finally, the drug war is an abysmal failure and a joke.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
So it is pretty safe.
Again this is a relative term which cannot be quantified. There are many 90 year olds who have smoked all their lives who could justifiably claim that cigarettes are safe. As to your last paragraph, I would tend to agree with the sentiment.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
Perhaps, but you can also use a vaporizer to extract the THC without any smoke. Or you can cook it. So it is pretty safe. Regardless. The point is that government lies and uses propaganda. Professor Nutts got sacked (pun intended) for telling the truth. Two other scientists have resigned since this happened. And finally, the drug war is an abysmal failure and a joke.
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Actually Nutt got asked to resign not sacked, the reason was that he was campaigning on "his" agenda which conflicted with the govenment. as to his assertions, they are biased and have been discredited, he claims that he based his opinion on the results of questionaire of professionals, well he sent the questions to 100 selected (note SELECTED) healthcare professionals - of which 27 replied - this is generally regarded as being non representative it has also been alledged that of those that answered 50% were chest doctors and would therefore be likely to vote for thier speciality No? as for the claims that its safer, this has been proven to be wrong, yes more people suffer medical problem from alcohol but that is because alcohol comsumpsion if far greater that that of these drugs
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.