Help fix performance problems in VS
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
I hate this bullsh*t response.
You should, it hits the mark. I've been in the CP community for over a decade. In the last 3 years, it's become fashionable to complain, whine, and make sarcastic remarks about *everything*. This whole thread is a case in point. You incessantly complain about VS, yet when Microsoft tries to improve it by learning more about performance issues, you complain about *that*. You complain about the paid version, you complain about the free version. You talk as if you could write software that is better. If that's the case, show me your work. I'll delight in finding things to complain about. This community has devolved into a group of old sarcastic, jaded, cynical, whiny nerds. All I see is bitching, never any attempts to improve the situation. Makes me want to find another place to talk nerd stuff with other devs. Didn't used to be like this.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoIn the form of a VS plug-in, right? So the next time a service pack comes out, we have to UNINSTALL the plugin(s), install the service pack, reinstall the plug-ins, and we're good to go a few hours later? I don't even trust Microsoft to patch a paper bag, much less Visual Studio.
Judah Himango wrote:
This community has devolved into a group of old sarcastic, jaded, cynical, whiny nerds.
Well, look at our tools. Old, buggy, unreliable, and ignored by their manufacture after release. Do you think we LIKE having to complain about being raked over the coals for what amounts to be amateurish crap in terms of software? Believe me, there are LOT of things I'd rather be doing. Better to complain about it here where we have a legion of sympathetic ears rather than on MSConnect where we're ignored, and or worse, told to pound sand.
Judah Himango wrote:
All I see is bitching, never any attempts to improve the situation.
How many times do you think a dog is gonna hunt when every time it does, it gets nothing more than a whipping for its trouble?
Judah Himango wrote:
Makes me want to find another place to talk nerd stuff with other devs.
There's always the MSDN forums. Oh, wait... EVERYBODY there is complaining about problems. Not like here, where it's just a handful of us. Oh wait... Everybody here is comlaining about VS2010 as well. If you ask me, we're much more entertaining (when we're not complaining and not trying to make things better), so I think you're better off here.
Judah Himango wrote:
Didn't used to be like this.
Yeah it was. There are just more of us now.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
I hate this bullsh*t response.
You should, it hits the mark. I've been in the CP community for over a decade. In the last 3 years, it's become fashionable to complain, whine, and make sarcastic remarks about *everything*. This whole thread is a case in point. You incessantly complain about VS, yet when Microsoft tries to improve it by learning more about performance issues, you complain about *that*. You complain about the paid version, you complain about the free version. You talk as if you could write software that is better. If that's the case, show me your work. I'll delight in finding things to complain about. This community has devolved into a group of old sarcastic, jaded, cynical, whiny nerds. All I see is bitching, never any attempts to improve the situation. Makes me want to find another place to talk nerd stuff with other devs. Didn't used to be like this.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
You should, it hits the mark.
No it doesn't. Yes, there is sarcasm and criticism, but in this case the criticism is completely valid. Microsoft claimed VS 2010 would be the next 6; the developer community interpretted that to mean lean and mean. Instead it was bloated and slow. Microsoft's response has been flippant at best.
Judah Himango wrote:
You complain about the paid version, you complain about the free version.
Wow, did you ever miss the point. The point is that VS 2010 Express is slow and unpolished. I wouldn't choose to use it. So why should I pay $800 for the same thing? And if I do pay $800, don't I have a right to complain loudly when it doesn't work right? If you bought a $800 TV and it didn't work as advertised, I suppose you wouldn't complain. After all, that's too fashionable. Nope, you'd just suck it up and live with it. I'll even bet you'd return a $30 toaster that didn't work right. Or maybe not.
Judah Himango wrote:
All I see is bitching, never any attempts to improve the situation.
We have. I extensively beta tested VS 2005 and later VS 2010. I've filed dozens of bug reports to Microsoft only to have them rejected and closed. Many other people here have done the same and the resposne from Microsoft has been the same: go to hell, we can't be bothered.
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Judah Himango wrote:
Install the damn plugin
Why should I? Microsoft has a pretty poor track record as far as I'm concerned. If I'm gonna get dirty, I insist that Microsoft get in the mud pit with me. they've shown no desire to do that. I kind of enjoy this love/hate thing we have going here. You love VS2010, we hate it. It's our own version of yin/yang, providing balance in the universe.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
If I'm gonna get dirty, I insist that Microsoft get in the mud pit with me.
What do you mean?
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Judah Himango wrote:
You should, it hits the mark.
No it doesn't. Yes, there is sarcasm and criticism, but in this case the criticism is completely valid. Microsoft claimed VS 2010 would be the next 6; the developer community interpretted that to mean lean and mean. Instead it was bloated and slow. Microsoft's response has been flippant at best.
Judah Himango wrote:
You complain about the paid version, you complain about the free version.
Wow, did you ever miss the point. The point is that VS 2010 Express is slow and unpolished. I wouldn't choose to use it. So why should I pay $800 for the same thing? And if I do pay $800, don't I have a right to complain loudly when it doesn't work right? If you bought a $800 TV and it didn't work as advertised, I suppose you wouldn't complain. After all, that's too fashionable. Nope, you'd just suck it up and live with it. I'll even bet you'd return a $30 toaster that didn't work right. Or maybe not.
Judah Himango wrote:
All I see is bitching, never any attempts to improve the situation.
We have. I extensively beta tested VS 2005 and later VS 2010. I've filed dozens of bug reports to Microsoft only to have them rejected and closed. Many other people here have done the same and the resposne from Microsoft has been the same: go to hell, we can't be bothered.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Microsoft claimed VS 2010 would be the next 6
Kinda remiscient of when they said they "re-wrote" SourceSafe so that it "didn't suck". And now we have that bloated over-priced mess called Team Foundation Suite.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
If I'm gonna get dirty, I insist that Microsoft get in the mud pit with me.
What do you mean?
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoIt's a colloquialism. If I'm going to go through the trouble/hassle of installing a plug-in, they're gonna have to take it to heart and start telling me something besides, "it's not worth fixing". In case you haven't picked up on it yet, that really pissed me off.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Judah Himango wrote:
You should, it hits the mark.
No it doesn't. Yes, there is sarcasm and criticism, but in this case the criticism is completely valid. Microsoft claimed VS 2010 would be the next 6; the developer community interpretted that to mean lean and mean. Instead it was bloated and slow. Microsoft's response has been flippant at best.
Judah Himango wrote:
You complain about the paid version, you complain about the free version.
Wow, did you ever miss the point. The point is that VS 2010 Express is slow and unpolished. I wouldn't choose to use it. So why should I pay $800 for the same thing? And if I do pay $800, don't I have a right to complain loudly when it doesn't work right? If you bought a $800 TV and it didn't work as advertised, I suppose you wouldn't complain. After all, that's too fashionable. Nope, you'd just suck it up and live with it. I'll even bet you'd return a $30 toaster that didn't work right. Or maybe not.
Judah Himango wrote:
All I see is bitching, never any attempts to improve the situation.
We have. I extensively beta tested VS 2005 and later VS 2010. I've filed dozens of bug reports to Microsoft only to have them rejected and closed. Many other people here have done the same and the resposne from Microsoft has been the same: go to hell, we can't be bothered.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
And if I do pay $800, don't I have a right to complain loudly when it doesn't work right?
Same thing I tell my kids. Complain once, OK. Complain incessantly for weeks on end, not OK. Some things don't get fixed. Software has bugs. Get over it. Move on. If VS doesn't work for you, don't use it. If you use it, and it has problems, don't just bitch about it. Do something about it. The thing I linked to is a step in the right direction. I wouldn't mind the complaining if there was also an acknowledgment of improvements. For example, VS 2010 doesn't leak memory like 2008 did. (Try opening/closing a 30 proj solution 10 times, for example.) Do I see any, "Oh, sweet, they fixed some memory leaks" posts? Nope. Just more bitching.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
In the form of a VS plug-in, right? So the next time a service pack comes out, we have to UNINSTALL the plugin(s), install the service pack, reinstall the plug-ins, and we're good to go a few hours later? I don't even trust Microsoft to patch a paper bag, much less Visual Studio.
Judah Himango wrote:
This community has devolved into a group of old sarcastic, jaded, cynical, whiny nerds.
Well, look at our tools. Old, buggy, unreliable, and ignored by their manufacture after release. Do you think we LIKE having to complain about being raked over the coals for what amounts to be amateurish crap in terms of software? Believe me, there are LOT of things I'd rather be doing. Better to complain about it here where we have a legion of sympathetic ears rather than on MSConnect where we're ignored, and or worse, told to pound sand.
Judah Himango wrote:
All I see is bitching, never any attempts to improve the situation.
How many times do you think a dog is gonna hunt when every time it does, it gets nothing more than a whipping for its trouble?
Judah Himango wrote:
Makes me want to find another place to talk nerd stuff with other devs.
There's always the MSDN forums. Oh, wait... EVERYBODY there is complaining about problems. Not like here, where it's just a handful of us. Oh wait... Everybody here is comlaining about VS2010 as well. If you ask me, we're much more entertaining (when we're not complaining and not trying to make things better), so I think you're better off here.
Judah Himango wrote:
Didn't used to be like this.
Yeah it was. There are just more of us now.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
So the next time a service pack comes out, we have to UNINSTALL the plugin(s), install the service pack, reinstall the plug-ins, and we're good to go a few hours later?
Is that the way the plugin system works? Will you eat your words if, when the next SP comes out, you don't have to do that? Will you write a post praising the VS plugin system? :) I wouldn't mind the complaining so much if there was also acknowledgment of improvements.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
And if I do pay $800, don't I have a right to complain loudly when it doesn't work right?
Same thing I tell my kids. Complain once, OK. Complain incessantly for weeks on end, not OK. Some things don't get fixed. Software has bugs. Get over it. Move on. If VS doesn't work for you, don't use it. If you use it, and it has problems, don't just bitch about it. Do something about it. The thing I linked to is a step in the right direction. I wouldn't mind the complaining if there was also an acknowledgment of improvements. For example, VS 2010 doesn't leak memory like 2008 did. (Try opening/closing a 30 proj solution 10 times, for example.) Do I see any, "Oh, sweet, they fixed some memory leaks" posts? Nope. Just more bitching.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
Complain once, OK. Complain incessantly for weeks on end, not OK
That's a load of crap and you know it. Microsoft doesn't respond unless you complain loudly and often. (Same with Apple and many other companies.) There were bug fixes in the release version of VS 2010 that happened only becuase I complained incessantly to everyone in Microsoft management that I could contact. There was another blantantly obvious issue they refused to even look at until dozens of people had added comments to the bug report.
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It's a colloquialism. If I'm going to go through the trouble/hassle of installing a plug-in, they're gonna have to take it to heart and start telling me something besides, "it's not worth fixing". In case you haven't picked up on it yet, that really pissed me off.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Ok, fair enough. They've been using this tool at Microsoft to find and fix VS hangs. Does that count? Quoting an MS dev,
This tool has been used inside Microsoft for several months, and the results have been astounding. The quality of the bug reports this tool generates are superb, and allows the Visual Studio feature teams to spend more time fixing issues, and less time investigating and trying to reproduce issues. If you are encountering responsiveness issues in the IDE, and would like your issues fixed, this extension is a must have.
I'm with you about MS Connect, by the way. They need to hire more people to fix more bugs. Too many things go unresolved/postponed/will not fix. I think cases that are auto-reported from this plugin have a higher chance of getting fixed, as they are actionable items with stack trace, whereas MS Connect issues often are less concrete, less actionable.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
And if I do pay $800, don't I have a right to complain loudly when it doesn't work right?
Same thing I tell my kids. Complain once, OK. Complain incessantly for weeks on end, not OK. Some things don't get fixed. Software has bugs. Get over it. Move on. If VS doesn't work for you, don't use it. If you use it, and it has problems, don't just bitch about it. Do something about it. The thing I linked to is a step in the right direction. I wouldn't mind the complaining if there was also an acknowledgment of improvements. For example, VS 2010 doesn't leak memory like 2008 did. (Try opening/closing a 30 proj solution 10 times, for example.) Do I see any, "Oh, sweet, they fixed some memory leaks" posts? Nope. Just more bitching.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
If you use it, and it has problems, don't just bitch about it. Do something about it.
This is me getting angry: For the last time, when we DO try to do something about it, we're essentially told BY MICROSOFT that we're wasting our time in doing so. I reported the syntax coloring bug BEFORE VS2010 went into beta. It's now MORE BROKEN than it was in VS2008. They took away MDI windows because WPF doesn't support MDI. They claim they did a survey of developers before making that call. WHAT SURVEY!? NOBODY here ever heard about a frakking survey. You'd think that what could arguably be called the 2nd largest conglomeration of MS developers on the FRAKKING planet would have heard about a survey if it existed. We won't even start to discuss the mysterious freezes, laggy response in the editor, and the weird assed sh*t I experienced on Sunday with regards to the debugger on a simple console app. This is me calming down a little:
Judah Himango wrote:
I wouldn't mind the complaining if there was also an acknowledgment of improvements.
Haven't you ever heard that old saying, "You're only as good as your last bad act"? Just give in to the dark side, Judah. We'll still let you be our friends. Honest.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Judah Himango wrote:
Complain once, OK. Complain incessantly for weeks on end, not OK
That's a load of crap and you know it. Microsoft doesn't respond unless you complain loudly and often. (Same with Apple and many other companies.) There were bug fixes in the release version of VS 2010 that happened only becuase I complained incessantly to everyone in Microsoft management that I could contact. There was another blantantly obvious issue they refused to even look at until dozens of people had added comments to the bug report.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
There were bug fixes in the release version of VS 2010
Bingo. There were fixes because you did something. (Not just bitch in the CP forums.) I don't mind the bitching if you're trying to improve things. That's why I linked to this tool. It can improve things. But if you don't try to improve things, and all you're doing is bitching to CP, I've no respect for that.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
So the next time a service pack comes out, we have to UNINSTALL the plugin(s), install the service pack, reinstall the plug-ins, and we're good to go a few hours later?
Is that the way the plugin system works? Will you eat your words if, when the next SP comes out, you don't have to do that? Will you write a post praising the VS plugin system? :) I wouldn't mind the complaining so much if there was also acknowledgment of improvements.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
Is that the way the plugin system works? Will you eat your words if, when the next SP comes out, you don't have to do that? Will you write a post praising the VS plugin system?
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
Judah Himango wrote:
I wouldn't mind the complaining so much if there was also acknowledgment of improvements.
I don't want new features. I don't use 90% of the stuff the IDE can do. I merely want the stuff I use to work without a hiccup.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
still uses XP
Wow. 11 year old OS. Yikes.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoHey, I'm still using W2K at work :sigh:
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
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Judah Himango wrote:
If you use it, and it has problems, don't just bitch about it. Do something about it.
This is me getting angry: For the last time, when we DO try to do something about it, we're essentially told BY MICROSOFT that we're wasting our time in doing so. I reported the syntax coloring bug BEFORE VS2010 went into beta. It's now MORE BROKEN than it was in VS2008. They took away MDI windows because WPF doesn't support MDI. They claim they did a survey of developers before making that call. WHAT SURVEY!? NOBODY here ever heard about a frakking survey. You'd think that what could arguably be called the 2nd largest conglomeration of MS developers on the FRAKKING planet would have heard about a survey if it existed. We won't even start to discuss the mysterious freezes, laggy response in the editor, and the weird assed sh*t I experienced on Sunday with regards to the debugger on a simple console app. This is me calming down a little:
Judah Himango wrote:
I wouldn't mind the complaining if there was also an acknowledgment of improvements.
Haven't you ever heard that old saying, "You're only as good as your last bad act"? Just give in to the dark side, Judah. We'll still let you be our friends. Honest.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Yeah, but Joe just mentioned that some bugs *did* get fixed because he reported them to MS. Why didn't we hear about those? Instead, all we heard was more whining about the ones that didn't get fixed. You're complaining that they didn't fix a syntax color bug. You're complaining they don't have MDI windows. You're implying they lied about taking a survey on the MDI thing. So what? They took away MDI? Boo freaking hoo. Get over it. You're not a 5 year old. Software is imperfect. Move on. If it really matters that much to you, keep talking to Microsoft, stop bitching to CP about how terrible your life is because of it. When every CP thread is met with cynicism, it's gone too far. Oh, if VS has an MDI, I'm going to start bitching.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
There were bug fixes in the release version of VS 2010
Bingo. There were fixes because you did something. (Not just bitch in the CP forums.) I don't mind the bitching if you're trying to improve things. That's why I linked to this tool. It can improve things. But if you don't try to improve things, and all you're doing is bitching to CP, I've no respect for that.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoAre you even listening. We HAVE tried to make other changes and Microsoft tells us to fuck off. Hence, we come here and bitch, some of us with the hope that being called out publically will embarasss Microsoft into acting. But do make note that the ONLY reason those bugs got fixed is because I bitched and moaned on CodeProject and various blogs run by Microsoft managers. In other words, I did what we are doing here. It was the ONLY thing that was effect. Microsoft not only ignored Connect but closed the damn bugs with "can't reproduce, won't fix" (though they were readily reproducable.)
Judah Himango wrote:
But if you don't try to improve things, and all you're doing is bitching to CP, I've no respect for that.
Who fucking said that? Are you even fucking reading. This is really pissing me off. We ARE filing bugs and Microsoft doesn't give a shit. Just like Apple, until you embarass them in public, THEY.DON'T.CARE.
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Judah Himango wrote:
Is that the way the plugin system works? Will you eat your words if, when the next SP comes out, you don't have to do that? Will you write a post praising the VS plugin system?
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
Judah Himango wrote:
I wouldn't mind the complaining so much if there was also acknowledgment of improvements.
I don't want new features. I don't use 90% of the stuff the IDE can do. I merely want the stuff I use to work without a hiccup.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I don't want new features
Yeah you do. You just complained 2010 doesn't have MDI. But I'm not talking about features. I'm talking about improvement. Examples: fewer memory leaks in 2010. The Add Reference dialog doesn't freeze the UI thread for 10 seconds. :-p
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
I may be mistaken about this, John, but I think the plugin system works like that already. I didn't have to reinstall my plugins when VS 2010 SP1 was released last month. Guess I'll be waiting for a CP lounge thread saying, "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right..." ;)
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
That's the problem. When I use it, VS 2010 rarely goes unresponsive for 2 seconds
Really? Mine freezes all the time... I could be in the middle of typing, and it'll just suddenly lock up for a good minute or two. It's gotten to the point that when it happens, I just browse a few websites and check back now and then to see if it's woken up yet.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)This plugin will help solve things then. Give it a shot, let us know how it works for you.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Are you even listening. We HAVE tried to make other changes and Microsoft tells us to fuck off. Hence, we come here and bitch, some of us with the hope that being called out publically will embarasss Microsoft into acting. But do make note that the ONLY reason those bugs got fixed is because I bitched and moaned on CodeProject and various blogs run by Microsoft managers. In other words, I did what we are doing here. It was the ONLY thing that was effect. Microsoft not only ignored Connect but closed the damn bugs with "can't reproduce, won't fix" (though they were readily reproducable.)
Judah Himango wrote:
But if you don't try to improve things, and all you're doing is bitching to CP, I've no respect for that.
Who fucking said that? Are you even fucking reading. This is really pissing me off. We ARE filing bugs and Microsoft doesn't give a shit. Just like Apple, until you embarass them in public, THEY.DON'T.CARE.
You guys complain about performance. Fair. I post something, "Hey, here's a way to help improve perf in VS", then you bitch about *that*? That's not right. "Oh, they just won't listen, whaaaaaa!" Cry me a damn river. Get over it. You're not a 5 year old. MS *does* listen to feedback, and they do fix things. You even admit this. They just don't fix everything. Could improve on that front? Sure. But when every post here is met with cynical remarks, things have gone too far.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Yeah, but Joe just mentioned that some bugs *did* get fixed because he reported them to MS. Why didn't we hear about those? Instead, all we heard was more whining about the ones that didn't get fixed. You're complaining that they didn't fix a syntax color bug. You're complaining they don't have MDI windows. You're implying they lied about taking a survey on the MDI thing. So what? They took away MDI? Boo freaking hoo. Get over it. You're not a 5 year old. Software is imperfect. Move on. If it really matters that much to you, keep talking to Microsoft, stop bitching to CP about how terrible your life is because of it. When every CP thread is met with cynicism, it's gone too far. Oh, if VS has an MDI, I'm going to start bitching.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
Yeah, but Joe just mentioned that some bugs *did* get fixed because he reported them to MS
Read what I wrote. The bugs got fixed because I publicly complained about them; they ignored them when I simply reported them (and even closed most of them.) There is a HUGE difference. You are ignoring the simple fact that we talked to Microsoft over and over and until the were publicly embarassed, they did NOTHING.
Judah Himango wrote:
Software is imperfect.Move on.
This is such a bullshit attitude. We aren't talking about free or $50 software here, but $800+ software. I know you're just being a damn hypocrite because I'm sure you take back the $30 toaster that doesn't work right. I'm sure if you have a car with the same repair problem, you'd complain to both the company and governmental agencies. But somehow, you're all magnaniumous about software. Sure. (A dozen years ago there was a doozy of a bug in Adobe Premiere. I reported it and was told there was no bug. Others reported it and were told the same. We all started complaining publicly. Lo and behold, a patch [that wasn't in the works] suddenly came out and that bug was fixed [though weirdly, Adobe kept denying its existance.] I could got on and on about products that didn't get fixed until there was a public outcry.)
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I don't want new features
Yeah you do. You just complained 2010 doesn't have MDI. But I'm not talking about features. I'm talking about improvement. Examples: fewer memory leaks in 2010. The Add Reference dialog doesn't freeze the UI thread for 10 seconds. :-p
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
I may be mistaken about this, John, but I think the plugin system works like that already. I didn't have to reinstall my plugins when VS 2010 SP1 was released last month. Guess I'll be waiting for a CP lounge thread saying, "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right..." ;)
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
