Programmers Who Don't Know HTML
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
I'm sitting beside one, which is very frustrating given he has a degree and 3 years commercial experience in ASP.NET and we are all but exclusively a web development team. 4 days it's taken him to add a form tag around some HTML given to us by the design team and hook it up to post to Monorail with its DataBinder. Can't wait until I tell him it has to have Javascript (ooooohhh! what's that??) for some simple validation... Actually, what's worse do you think? Programmers who don't know HTML or BA's that think they do?
Typical n-tiered architecture: DB <-> Junk(0) <-> ... <-> Junk(n-1) <-> Pretty
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The article editor as well, I go to a lot of trouble using <strong> and <em> and they get replaced. Just awful. :sigh:
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
The article editor as well, I go to a lot of trouble using <strong> and <em> and they get replaced.
... By something that does exactly the same thing.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Just awful.
Er, yeah. Isn't it?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'm sitting beside one, which is very frustrating given he has a degree and 3 years commercial experience in ASP.NET and we are all but exclusively a web development team. 4 days it's taken him to add a form tag around some HTML given to us by the design team and hook it up to post to Monorail with its DataBinder. Can't wait until I tell him it has to have Javascript (ooooohhh! what's that??) for some simple validation... Actually, what's worse do you think? Programmers who don't know HTML or BA's that think they do?
Typical n-tiered architecture: DB <-> Junk(0) <-> ... <-> Junk(n-1) <-> Pretty
GlobX wrote:
Actually, what's worse do you think? Programmers who don't know HTML or BA's that think they do?
Someone who thinks he knows something while he doesn't is worse than someone who just doesn't know something. At least the latter doesn't have an attitude ;) I don't know html and I can happily admit it :)
It's an OO world.
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The article editor as well, I go to a lot of trouble using <strong> and <em> and they get replaced. Just awful. :sigh:
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
Only know the basics. I try to steer away from web development, though increasingly seem to be forced onto it. I suppose it helps to have a more varied skill set etc though, but I generally find web development a nightmare compared to development for windows (regardless whether the windows dev is WinForms, MFC, WPF, direct Win32 API, etc). Having to deal with things like different web browsers and trying to figure out how to debug ajax stuff irritates me, though I guess part of it comes down to what you're used to and I've a lot more experience in the windows world.
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
Good question. There are still developers who support and maintain desktop apps, such as myself, and have never had a need to be 'touching' HTML. I don't consider myself unique as I'm sure there are plenty of other people working similar to myself. In a way we are proof of the point that Pete O'Hanlon was making in his recent blog post about Windows 8. All these new technologies come along and do not make previous ones, obsolete. Rather they are just additions to already existing ones and in some cases provide complimentary or improved benefits. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote:
The article editor as well, I go to a lot of trouble using <strong> and <em> and they get replaced.
... By something that does exactly the same thing.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Just awful.
Er, yeah. Isn't it?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
does exactly the same thing
That depends on the browser.
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But maybe not valid.
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
I knew it and up until last year used it, but I like to think that I forgot as much of it as I could.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Actually, I'm pretty sure this will work in most browsers:
Hello World
Just as long as the file has an HTML extension. :)
True ;P
See if you can crack this: b749f6c269a746243debc6488046e33f
So far, no one seems to have cracked this!The unofficial awesome history of Code Project's Bob! "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
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Mark Wallace wrote:
does exactly the same thing
That depends on the browser.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
That depends on the browser.
The only difference I know of is that the strong and em tags are used by page readers, for adding emphasis when reading a page out loud, which, to me, means that most instances of them should be replaced by b and i tags, anyway.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
I have reasonable HTML knowledge so I can for example, among other things, avoid using tables to layout a page (a topic of hot debate sometime ago). I discovered CSS at one point and was able to appreciate it (I guess CSS counts for basic HTML knowledge :D) However, Javascript was something that I always avoided. I have been reusing blocks of code sometimes and modify them to fit my needs and get some job done. I was always under the impression it would be hell to learn it and it's really not worth it, ... and I survived somehow. Cheers.
giuchici
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PIEBALDconsult wrote:
That depends on the browser.
The only difference I know of is that the strong and em tags are used by page readers, for adding emphasis when reading a page out loud, which, to me, means that most instances of them should be replaced by b and i tags, anyway.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
b and i tags
Should not exist.
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Yeah but I can make winforms sit up and beg, I've been building winforms of 1 type or another for decades. SL is still a challenge but I figure I have enough of a grip on it to produce LOB apps.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Mark Wallace wrote:
b and i tags
Should not exist.
May the lord preserve us from evangelistic religious fanatics. How, pray, would you go about adding bold or italic text that is not to be stressed by an electronic voice reading the page?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
I do software unit testing for embedded systems and before the beginning of the year have never needed html and have never used it in my work environment. It did however fall part of my studies I did a few years back and it was needed when my boss wanted we to start with some java plugin development on Jenkins CI. Only a little HTML was needed though... Most of the webby stuff gets done with Jelly, which is more executable xml than html. Now that is fun.
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence." << please vote!! >>
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May the lord preserve us from evangelistic religious fanatics. How, pray, would you go about adding bold or italic text that is not to be stressed by an electronic voice reading the page?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
By using span and css?
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A thought just occurred to me (hey, you shut up, it happens on occassion!). I assume that most developers have had some experience with HTML. I'm not sure why; it just seems like a given to me (however unjustifiable that assumption may be). That may be more true of developers who post in the Lounge, considering we are exposed to HTML regularly. However, I am curious... how many of you know developers who don't know at least some basic HTML? If you are reading this, Chris, might be a good topic for a poll.
I really don't consider HTML a programming language, it is a markup language. It was designed to navigate documents, not write programs. The various attempts to write programs with HTML are really nothing more than glorified hacks and have significantly slowed down and in some cases reversed progress in good software engineering practices. This is the main reason that to this day users just shrug their shoulders and chuckle when a web site crashes. Flash was the first 'web' programming environment that came close to adhering to any kind of modern software platform and Silverlight is the first platform that I would consider state of the art in terms of good software engineering methodology (and I am definately not a Microsoft fan). The fact that Microsoft appears to be waffling on their Silverlight support in favor of HTML5 and JavaScript is really annoying.
