What If
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then?
No!!! Before you ask why does what you are proposing contain the word java in any sense?
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
Why‽‽‽
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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Why‽‽‽
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
too late :)
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
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What specifically from that post do you think is applicable to the hypothetical situation I described?
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
It's more of a combination of your hypothetical and the OP's sentiment. It feels a step backwards to basically change VS to work with Java/HTML and call .NET via a library, if I'm interpreting your post correctly. I should clarify what I meant by my "No" now; I would just stop using VS. If MS moved away from .NET towards JS, I would join the exodus from VS. I will clarify, when I read this: Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? I assumed you meant using VS.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
modified on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:52 AM
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
and what if it was called Visual js# :)
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then?
Are you nuts? Not just no, but hell no. Marc
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
If a shittuation (proposing a new word: shitty situation = shittuation :thumbsup: ) as you explain arises, I'll probably take up the deserted road. ASSEMBLY PROGRAMMING! With the rumours of the death of C++, I was already looking at it as an option. Sure, I'll have some learning to do, and I'll probably have to move my arse out and search for a job in some obscure company that does chip level programming. But hey, I do what I do for the love of it. And I have absolutely no love for javascript or html. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
It would still be slow because it's javascript. Javascript isn't designed for heavy lifting, and any attempt to make it more capable in this area will just turn it into another variation of PHP, or worse, Visual Basic.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
It would still be slow because it's javascript. Javascript isn't designed for heavy lifting, and any attempt to make it more capable in this area will just turn it into another variation of PHP, or worse, Visual Basic.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Javascript isn't designed for heavy lifting
Someone should really break this news to the guys who designed the Indian Railways website.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
Sure - the prime difference isn't going to be in the language, it's going to be all front ends will be HTML. Right now, ASP.NET generates controls that use JavaScript to manipulate HTML. My guess is that they'll start generating JavaScript that does more of the work on the front end and uses AJAX to get to the methods on the back end.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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It's more of a combination of your hypothetical and the OP's sentiment. It feels a step backwards to basically change VS to work with Java/HTML and call .NET via a library, if I'm interpreting your post correctly. I should clarify what I meant by my "No" now; I would just stop using VS. If MS moved away from .NET towards JS, I would join the exodus from VS. I will clarify, when I read this: Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? I assumed you meant using VS.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
modified on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:52 AM
wizardzz wrote:
I would exodus from MS.
What would you do in your new career?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript?
You can already do it through JScript.NET (nonetheless).
AspDotNetDev wrote:
What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)?No. If you do not twist JavaScript to adapt to these conventions, it is far more powerful. Why bloat JS when there is no need to/
AspDotNetDev wrote:
What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas?
does not matter.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF?
Again, there are some libraries which already provide features which are close to WPF.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then?
I am happy now. I have been mixing JS and HTML to develop desktop applications since the days of IE4. It was a neat concept and still remains a neat concept.
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It would still be slow because it's javascript. Javascript isn't designed for heavy lifting, and any attempt to make it more capable in this area will just turn it into another variation of PHP, or worse, Visual Basic.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Javascript isn't designed for heavy lifting
That all depends on the implementation. JavaScript could be implemented using a JIT compiler like C#, and so could perform very well. Sure, there are things like
execthat execute raw strings, but those could be treated as fringe cases (a bit like Reflection in C#). If we are talking about replacing WPF, we are really only talking abou Windows anyway, so we needn't consider performance on other platforms. And all of the JavaScript libraries could be built to at least support other platforms, though not as performant (again, though, we are talking about Windows 8 desktop development, so the ability of the apps to run on other platforms is really more of a bonus than a requirement).Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then?
No!!! Before you ask why does what you are proposing contain the word java in any sense?
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
pseudonym67 wrote:
Before you ask why does what you are proposing contain the word java in any sense?
Why would it? Java is entirely different from HTML and JavaScript.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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wizardzz wrote:
I would exodus from MS.
What would you do in your new career?
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
That's ok until you want to write software. You know, that needs to carry out the task before the user falls asleep.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^] "Program as if the technical support department is full of serial killers and they know your home address" - Ray Cassick Jr., RIP
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
One thing I would want is that it only supported the next version of Javascript with a lot of the crap stripped out. There are a lot of good language features in js, and a few completely horrible ones. If you stay a way from those, or they weren't there in the first place, then it is actually a pretty nice language.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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It would still be slow because it's javascript. Javascript isn't designed for heavy lifting, and any attempt to make it more capable in this area will just turn it into another variation of PHP, or worse, Visual Basic.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997I seem to remember you saying the same thing about C# at some point. With the current engines js is already compiled and with things like typed arrays, so it's not slow anymore. The only question is how sophisticated the optimizations get with each release.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript?
You can already do it through JScript.NET (nonetheless).
AspDotNetDev wrote:
What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)?No. If you do not twist JavaScript to adapt to these conventions, it is far more powerful. Why bloat JS when there is no need to/
AspDotNetDev wrote:
What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas?
does not matter.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF?
Again, there are some libraries which already provide features which are close to WPF.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then?
I am happy now. I have been mixing JS and HTML to develop desktop applications since the days of IE4. It was a neat concept and still remains a neat concept.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
You can already do it through JScript.NET (nonetheless).
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Again, there are some libraries which already provide features which are close to WPF.
You can already do most of what I said in JavaScript. I'm talking about Visual Studio making it mainstream and easy (and better than the current implementations).
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
No. If you do not twist JavaScript to adapt to these conventions, it is far more powerful. Why bloat JS when there is no need to.
What I was really talking about in that case was adding a JavaScript library that has knowledge of this pseudo form of generics. It wouldn't require JavaScript itself to be adapted in any way (the syntax I gave in the example is valid JavaScript). Visual Studio would support it by providing that library and by giving you fancy features, such as intellisense appropriate for the generic type and compile-time type checking.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
does not matter.
Perhaps to you. However, I know there are those out there who would not consider HTML/JavaScript development if it didn't have good 3D support.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
I am happy now.
Well alright then. :)
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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That's ok until you want to write software. You know, that needs to carry out the task before the user falls asleep.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^] "Program as if the technical support department is full of serial killers and they know your home address" - Ray Cassick Jr., RIP
Are you saying JavaScript is too slow? That really depends on the implementation. And if we get a fresh implementation in IE10 on Windows 8, then there is the potential that it will be much faster than any current implementation.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
