Saddam's a bad, bad man

Chris Austin

:)Thanks for the good laugh...now I need to clean the afternoon latte off my firggin keyboard and monitor. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.

David Wulff

That's interesting, even in my depressive state today I was able to pick up on the humour in what he was saying. Don't get so flipping defensive all the time, it doesn't help your karma. :~

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

David Wulff Born and Bred.

David Wulff

Tim Smith wrote: LIKE DUH!!!! BYA. Get it? Okay okay, I admit I really need to out more work into my jokes... :rolleyes:

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

David Wulff Born and Bred.

Chris Austin

David Wulff wrote: That's interesting, even in my depressive state today Sorry if I disturbed your melancholy:). Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.

Lost User

BYA - Bet Your AssArse Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

David Wulff

It's getting late in the day, and I'm not sure if you were offering a translation or returning the joke or what, but for the record I was making DUHBYA as in "like dubya". :~

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

David Wulff Born and Bred.

Lost User

David Wulff wrote: I was making DUHBYA as in "like dubya". Yeah, I understood. I was returning the joke. ;P Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

Chris Losinger

we have always been at war with eurasia

There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic

Smaller Animals Software

Chris Losinger

apparently australia hasn't learned anything from watching the militaries of Russia, Israel and the UK in their (failed) wars against terrorism. good luck, mates. -c

There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic

Smaller Animals Software

Brit

This scares me even more. If this stuff is true I think the entire worl community needs to take a look at itself and figure out why these things are allowed to go on for so long. (My first guess would be to avoid war) It raises questions like "how involved should we get in other people's governments"? Of course, a number of countries play the "Each country has its own sovereignty, that must be protected" card. While this is a decent idea, commiting to it entirely is a recipe for huge problems. Even worse, some people actually believe it, and when someone (like the US) intervenes somewhere is it "guilty" of violating the sovereignty of another nation (which really isn't nearly as good of a rule as people think it is). Then introduce all the other ways of viewing the world. For example, it often seems that Muslim vs Non-Muslim sometimes becomes the overriding factor in choosing sides for people in the Middle East. There is simply no doubt that the Middle East would be much more divided about the US and Iraq if the US was a predominantly Muslim nation. And, ultimately, you can't force any nation/regime to change if it isn't willing. The world community might use economic sanctions, but that won't always get you anywhere (e.g. Iraq). Saddam has really pushed things as far as he possibly can. So, what's the alternative? He's hiding behind 300,000 soldiers and civilians. Is it worth a war and the civilian casualties to stop him? How bad does a leader really have to be in order to justify a war? In general, the historical response is: a leader can be as bad as he wants as long as he crosses no international boundaries. (Which is pretty much what the rule "respect each nation's sovereignty" advocates.) I suppose it would all be so much easier if leaders did what the international community wanted or war didn't actually kill anyone. Policing the world is a bit like being a voluntary police officer in a neighborhood where all the criminals have automatic weapons, and they won't let you arrest them. ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion

Megan Forbes

Yeah, it's rather annoying that no-one cared about people's hands being burned away by acid until it suited war propoganda. Don't misunderstand me, it's disgusting and should be stopped, but shouldn't it have been stopped ages ago? :suss:

I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"

David Wulff

Oh no, please do carry on - the longer I stay reading in the Lounge the less time I have to spend on more depressing things like myself. :)

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

David Wulff Born and Bred.

David Wulff

D'oh. Okay, I'll lead... 1..2..3... everyone point at David and laugh. :-O

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

David Wulff Born and Bred.

Chris Austin

These are great points Brit. It just seems like the same f*^&ed up thing repeating itself. Without thinking much on it these examples come up. Slavery, WW2 Germany, Apartheid, Bosnia, Rowanda, Afghanistan Israel / Palestine, Iraq. I am just dumbfounded that this stuff seems to repeat itself so often. Brit wrote: In general, the historical response is: a leader can be as bad as he wants as long as he crosses no international boundaries. (Which is pretty much what the rule "respect each nation's sovereignty" advocates.) I am pretty much a "respect each nation's sovereignty" advocate but, it seems like it is so "black & white." It just seems that people are afraid to do the right thing until it is too late and war is unavoidable. <stateTheObvious> It seems like there has got to be a better way. </stateTheObvious> Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.

Lost User

It repeats because of concentration of power. See how an educated and democratic Germany could go into Nazi Germany because the actions of one group was not checked. It is a call for all of us to stand up for civil liberties and make sure that our countries don't pass laws that cause concentration of power. The only thing that I find disheartening in the current US politics, is the apparent lack of opposition to anything - not from the democrats, not from the media. I agree that there are security issues to be solved; but it does not justify taking off the regulations that a judge has to certify a wire-tap, if it has to be legal. There are so many other laws, that remove constitutional safeguards to prevent misuse of power. I am not suggesting that GWB or Ashcroft or Rumsfeld is doing it to meet their own ends. Everything is allright, when we have guys who believe in democracy heading our governments. But, how can we say that tomorrow we will not have a leader, who misuses these to consolidate power? Thomas My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

KaRl

Continental powers vs Ocean powers ?

Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans

brianwelsch

Thomas George wrote: But, how can we say that tomorrow we will not have a leader, who misuses these to consolidate power? This is one reason why I firmly believe that some type of time limit should be imposed on laws. When that time period is up, the law must be reviewed. I haven't thought through the details of this, but I think the concept works on several levels. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

KaRl

If he's guilty of this, let's try him in front of an International Court of Justice, like Nazis were, like Milosevitch is, like Pinochet should have been.

Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans

Lost User

what i am not certain yet is: - Why would not a federal judge give FBI permission to wiretap a possible terrorist, that they need to repeal this check? Obviously, the bureaucratic delays can be reduced, because the judge does not have any defense to hear. He is just looking at some intelligence or evidence that points to the possibility. What time frames would you give such a law? 2 years. We are already past an year after 9/11. Osama is still out there; and we have no idea, when we will get them. My concern is that our paranoia for Osama will lead to a system that eveolved over many years of mistakes and corrections will get changed to one that has lesser checks and balances and thereby, prone to abuse. No one, in the opposition, in the government, or in the media is making this an issue. We had FBI and CIA ignore so many warnings in the past that make me think that the laws are not the problem; enforcement is. It is much like running red, when there are no vehicles around. Once you get to think that it is ok, then it is ok. We have to guard our systems and make them better, not worse My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Brit

It just seems like the same f*^&ed up thing repeating itself. Without thinking much on it these examples come up. Slavery, WW2 Germany, Apartheid, Bosnia, Rowanda, Afghanistan Israel / Palestine, Iraq. I think things are slowly getting better. It takes a long time because many of the problems in the world are caused by thoughts in people's minds. Each new generation makes a little progress in eroding those old ways. The problems that we've seen in the 20th century are pretty much all throwbacks to problems which have existed for centuries, but which haven't been sorted out. Bosnia is about the ethnic/religious tensions which has existed for centuries (going back, at least, to Muslim conquests of the Balkans), but those problems were forgotten about because the USSR suppressed the area for so long. Palestine is about a Jewish homeland (since the Romans destroyed it in 70AD) which was brought to a head after WW2. Nazi Germany's genocide was about many centuries-long racism against Jews (look up the protestant reformer, Martin Luther's book "The Jews and their Lies"). Slavery is all but eraticated (but still exists in some third-world countries, like Sudan). Slowly, things are getting better - with the occasional flare-up caused by applying a wrong solution to a long-standing "problem" (e.g. Nazi Germany's final solution for the Jews, Saddam's bombing of the Kurds). The only downside is that the capability to do harm is greater now than ever (read: nuclear, biological, chemical weapons). That's why WMD need to be kept out of areas which still simmer with these problems (places like the Middle East). ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion