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peterchen wrote: Before: There is no "before" before the beginning of time. The mere concept of "time" goes along with the existance of the universe (be it by big bang, or god sneezing it out). There is a zero. Which is why I quoted the word before because I totally understand there was no before, no nothing, no ----------------------------------------. However to pose the question one must use common concepts to act as the launching pad. peterchen wrote: I believe in an imperfect*) "Creator" - who created the world by accident, or just for fun. As much as we cannot "grasp" god, he cannot grasp us (in a similar way quantum physics tend to evade the human mind Fine, but who created your imperfect creator? How did he come to be. How did he get into a position to be able to create, whether by accident or not, our universe? peterchen wrote: Looking out of my window, I see a yard, with cobblestones arranged in circles, a bench to sit on, scrubs around it, a tree, bare, naked except for the ivy. I see, I feel a "cration" - be it random, be it by god almighty, be it by intent: It doesn't matter. The beauty of the creation is there, for all of us to see. I am not trying to invalidate or lessen the beauty of the creation. I love it as much as you peterchen and revel in it as much as possible. I am glad it is. I simply want to know where it came from. I have no ulterior motives to wanting to know that fact, other than to be able to put aside this nagging, scary question. Can you explain to me how come you are not scared by the enormity and implacations of this question? Simply not having the potential to understand god, the creator and the "begining" to me is not an answer. I was thinking that even if we remove time from it all that things still involve an action and a reaction.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: How did he come to be. Maybe a spontaneous "event" - much like particle tunneling can be explained by "borrowing" energy for a short time. (again, an idea you find when reading Lem, I'm really surprised right now how many thoughts I consider "fitting" for questions like yours, can be traced back to him. My parents should really have taken more care of what I was reading!) Maybe our thoughts created it: we live in an supporting-each-other scenario, where one bootstrapped the other. Maybe it's an entity, unaware of space, time, everything. An entity that just *is*. Maybe this entity is what ve call "void". Maybe we are this entity, and merely dreaming. :cool:
If I could find a souvenir / just to prove the world was here [sighist]
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Megan Forbes wrote: Wonder (which comes at the cost of not understanding) is one of the most fun things in life! I wish I could remember who said "He who breaks a thing in order to understand how it works is a fool." Unfortunately it seems we humans are on that path with our entire planet right now. Hey! Stop hijacking my thread already! :-D This was about creationism not tree hugging vegeterianism. Ok, ok, so I get your point. But I am wondering about the origins of everything. And while I certainly am in no position, being only a minor deity, to pull apart the universe to find out where it came from, I do think understanding something and wanting to know where it came from are two different things. Megan Forbes wrote: I wish I could remember who said "He who breaks a thing in order to understand how it works is a fool." Not sure if it was an original but I read that in Terry Prachettes Thief of Time recently. The old time dude said it, forgot his name :) Megan Forbes wrote: Now get your ass up signal hill and watch the sunset / moon rise! :) care to join me?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: care to join me? You are a cruel man! Only 13 sleeps to go (as my mother-in-law said in an email today) :-D
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Trying to explain the nature of God and the universe with our limited understanding is futile, IMHO.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Well, it seems whatever was before 11/18/1970 @ 12:04PM, or Beginning of Time as I call it, is quite irrelevant to me. I can not know how it all came to be. And so I leave it as a mystery. I haven't read this yet, but it looks organized, and so it must have alot of good solid facts. http://www.world-mysteries.com/[^] BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: God made everything Just want to say one thing: There is no damn God! Have you all heard about evolution? Thats how we became human beings!! It wasn't a person in heaven who created us!! That is my thought! Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible? Yes. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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Paul Watson wrote: God made everything Just want to say one thing: There is no damn God! Have you all heard about evolution? Thats how we became human beings!! It wasn't a person in heaven who created us!! That is my thought! Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
So how did the universe evolve, or rather what did it evolve from? Are you a Big Banger? with chips, perhaps? ;) BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Paul Watson wrote: Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible? Yes. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan Shannon wrote: Paul Watson wrote: Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible? Yes. :laugh: BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
See "Cat's Cradle" for a full explanation. Bokonon was right - it says so here on the label. "My child was Inmate of the Month at Mohave County Jail" - Bumper Sticker in Bullhead City, AZ
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Paul Watson wrote: God made everything Just want to say one thing: There is no damn God! Have you all heard about evolution? Thats how we became human beings!! It wasn't a person in heaven who created us!! That is my thought! Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
Rickard Andersson wrote: There is no damn God! There is no proof either way. Did you ever consider that your thought could be wrong?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
So how did the universe evolve, or rather what did it evolve from? Are you a Big Banger? with chips, perhaps? ;) BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
brianwelsch wrote: Are you a Big Banger? with chips :laugh:
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible? Serious answer? "God is God - and I am not. I can only see a part of the picture he's painting" * That's probably the best explanation any of us humans with finite minds will ever be able to come up with, till death anyway. :) * if anyone can tell me who said that I'll hand over my precious kudo's from the CP newsletter testing yesterday to them :cool:
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
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Paul Watson wrote: Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible? Serious answer? "God is God - and I am not. I can only see a part of the picture he's painting" * That's probably the best explanation any of us humans with finite minds will ever be able to come up with, till death anyway. :) * if anyone can tell me who said that I'll hand over my precious kudo's from the CP newsletter testing yesterday to them :cool:
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
Megan Forbes wrote: "God is God - and I am not. I can only see a part of the picture he's painting" Thanks for giving me a serious answer, contrary to this being the Soapbox I was looking for serious thoughts on the matter. Though as I cannot let things lie, I have to say your answer does not help me. I hope it helps you though :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Paul Watson wrote: God made everything Just want to say one thing: There is no damn God! Have you all heard about evolution? Thats how we became human beings!! It wasn't a person in heaven who created us!! That is my thought! Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
Rickard Andersson wrote: Paul Watson wrote: God made everything Talk about taking me out of context! Rickard Andersson wrote: Just want to say one thing: There is no damn God! Have you all heard about evolution? Thats how we became human beings!! It wasn't a person in heaven who created us!! I was not asking about God. And evolution does not disprove God in anyway.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Megan Forbes wrote: "God is God - and I am not. I can only see a part of the picture he's painting" Thanks for giving me a serious answer, contrary to this being the Soapbox I was looking for serious thoughts on the matter. Though as I cannot let things lie, I have to say your answer does not help me. I hope it helps you though :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: Though as I cannot let things lie, I have to say your answer does not help me. I hope it helps you though To me it makes sense. If he's God, and I'm human, how can I expect to understand him? Interesting how there are a couple of topics that all people feel strongly about - even if that strong feeling is to defend neutrality. Perhaps we aren't so far removed from the crazy lunatic suicide bombers as we would like to believe. :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
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Paul Watson wrote: Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible? Yes. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan Shannon wrote: Yes. Must be late in the day because I don't understand the significance or meaning. Or are you just saying "Yes you can honestly explain." If so, please do, I am all ears :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Paul Watson wrote: Though as I cannot let things lie, I have to say your answer does not help me. I hope it helps you though To me it makes sense. If he's God, and I'm human, how can I expect to understand him? Interesting how there are a couple of topics that all people feel strongly about - even if that strong feeling is to defend neutrality. Perhaps we aren't so far removed from the crazy lunatic suicide bombers as we would like to believe. :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
Megan Forbes wrote: Perhaps we aren't so far removed from the crazy lunatic suicide bombers as we would like to believe :~ I don't for a moment think we are different. I would be blowing up Israeli tanks and buses as well if I was a Palestinian. Just as I would be demolishing Arafat's compound and hunting his croonies down if I was an Israeli. It is in all of us IMO. Megan Forbes wrote: To me it makes sense. If he's God, and I'm human, how can I expect to understand him? I guess my question asks more about where did your creator come from Meg? What created him/her/it? And then what created that being, and so forth. No offense but to the "how can I expect to understand the minds of gods" arguement is not along what I am asking. The Bible never speaks about where God comes from, does it?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Megan Forbes wrote: Perhaps we aren't so far removed from the crazy lunatic suicide bombers as we would like to believe :~ I don't for a moment think we are different. I would be blowing up Israeli tanks and buses as well if I was a Palestinian. Just as I would be demolishing Arafat's compound and hunting his croonies down if I was an Israeli. It is in all of us IMO. Megan Forbes wrote: To me it makes sense. If he's God, and I'm human, how can I expect to understand him? I guess my question asks more about where did your creator come from Meg? What created him/her/it? And then what created that being, and so forth. No offense but to the "how can I expect to understand the minds of gods" arguement is not along what I am asking. The Bible never speaks about where God comes from, does it?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
Paul Watson wrote: The Bible never speaks about where God comes from, does it? No - it'll be the first question on my list when I die :-D. The second will be asking permission to drop by CP one last time and send you the answer. Although my idea of heaven definitely involves a really fast pc, with a 1Gb cable connection... :rolleyes:
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
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Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of how everything (life, love, the universe etc.) came to be? I get the big bang theories and I get the God made everything theories. What I want to know is what came before all of that and how did that come about? If someone asked me what I thought the scariest question of all time was, this would be it. Can you honestly even begin to explain how all of this *Paul waves his arms around in the air* can be possible?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
12 billion years ago, two hyperspheres of M-space collided in the 13th dimension. The resulting release of energy caused an imperfection on one of them, which evolved into our universe.* Simple, really. ;P OK, Chris, if you see Santa again, get him to send one of those life thingies my way! As Douglas Adams said, whenever someone solves the universe, it gets replaced with something much more complicated. This may have happened several times already. Whenever you find the answer to "what created X?", you find the question, "what created the thing that created X?". The very act of creation implies the existence of time, so any answer to that question will, by definition, not be the Ultimate Truth™ everyone seems so keen to find. Personally, I don't think our universe is capable of expressing the information required to even begin to ask the "right" question, let alone answer it. *Does that mean our universe is nothing more than a wrinkle on God's balls?
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Paul Watson wrote: The Bible never speaks about where God comes from, does it? No - it'll be the first question on my list when I die :-D. The second will be asking permission to drop by CP one last time and send you the answer. Although my idea of heaven definitely involves a really fast pc, with a 1Gb cable connection... :rolleyes:
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
Megan Forbes wrote: second will be asking permission to drop by CP one last time and send you the answer. :-O I am humbled Megan Forbes wrote: Although my idea of heaven definitely involves a really fast pc, with a 1Gb cable connection... LOL Frankly, my idea of paradise/heaven/valhalla involves a grand total of 1 computer. That 1 computer would be in the Encyclopedia Galactica building with the label "primitive annoying device." ;)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
