What technique do you use to persist state?
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Dang Marc, have you been reading my hard drive again? I have a data class that contains named value pairs and supports String, Integer, Double, Date and Boolean values. These can be read from file in a simple format and used to persist state. The data class is also used for passing between services. It is my general throw around format. I need to work out an article for just this as I have 3-4 more that all use it so the DataSet becomes a pre-requisite article to write. One day...
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Dang Marc, have you been reading my hard drive again?
How is he going to be able to do that? The powere keeps going off and you cannot get a good read on anything.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogApp option specific stuff locally on the machine of the client. If there is a server everything else goes there into a database. Else I use depending on the amount of data a SQLite DB or XML/CSV files located in the AppData for everything.
cheers Marco Bertschi
Software Developer & Founder SMGT Web-Portal CP Profile | My Articles | Twitter | Facebook | SMGT Web-Portal Freedom, son, is a dirty shirt - The Boss
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogA combination of things. For the simple stuff such as UI persistence, I use Application.Config: Save and restore your form size and location[^] For more complex data I try to stick to DB-like data, with SqlCE files or XML if I want human readable. I also have a encryption class which has a file option for more secure data - but the data I serialise to that is normally XML.
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogBack when I was a teenager, I thought saving UI State was all the rage but I soon gave it up. The massive amount of code required to store and manage it and make it all perfect just wasn't worth it. Heck, even today, I have a problem when I load firefox at home. You see I have a laptop hooked up to another monitor. However, that monitor is also wired to another machine. When the other machine is on, Windows on the laptop works fine but when I open something that was previously opened on the second monitor guess where it opens? If Windows and Firefox can't manage to get UI saving settings right why even bother? Plus, if you make an infinitely configurable UI, power users will complain that they can't configure X and that is so obvious or worse an upgrade will wipe their settings and lose you a customer. So, long story short, only save the bare essentials that make the app usable. The rest, don't make configurable unless they ask.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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Oh and another thing, your question reminded me of this conflict, Custom Application Configuration XML files Warning[^] Don't know if this has been resolved yet, haven't tried!
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
If you are making use of custom files to store config settings, don't call them AppName.config or AppName.exe.config. Oh my. That's good to know! Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
I store settings and preferences (that can be safely recreated if missing) in an XML file. I store application data that I don't want a user to be able to edit (and therefore corrupt) in a binary serialized Gzip'd file.
Marc Clifton wrote:
do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI?
Yes (as much as I can). It's one of my personal criteria for a "polished" app. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
in a binary serialized Gzip'd file.
Ah, snazzy. :) Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogAll Settings are stored in the database, and even cascaded: factory (our) settings -> company settings -> user settings
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Dang Marc, have you been reading my hard drive again? I have a data class that contains named value pairs and supports String, Integer, Double, Date and Boolean values. These can be read from file in a simple format and used to persist state. The data class is also used for passing between services. It is my general throw around format. I need to work out an article for just this as I have 3-4 more that all use it so the DataSet becomes a pre-requisite article to write. One day...
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Dang Marc, have you been reading my hard drive again?
Who, me? :~
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
I need to work out an article for just this
That would be great. The impetus, partly, for my survey'ish question is because I've been adding state/configuration persistence to an app, and I was wondering what sort of "best practices" there might be out there. The .NET class seems not configurable enough - I'd like to leave it open to the developer as to how to persist the state information. On the other hand, it also seems to closely coupled to "the Microsoft way", what with all the binding support, not that one needs to use it. At the moment, I've decided to go for an interface-less, more functional approach, resulting in this raw usage example:
public ApplicationFormController()
{
Program.AppState.Register("Form", () =>
{
return new List()
{
new State("X", View.Location.X),
new State("Y", View.Location.Y),
new State("W", View.Size.Width),
new State("H", View.Size.Height),
new State("WindowState", View.WindowState.ToString()),
};}, state => { // Silently handle exceptions for when we add state items that are part of the state file until we // save the state. This allows me to add new state information without crashing the app on startup. Program.Try(() => View.Location = new Point(state.Single(t => t.Key == "X").Value.to\_i(), state.Single(t => t.Key == "Y").Value.to\_i())); Program.Try(() => View.Size = new Size(state.Single(t => t.Key == "W").Value.to\_i(), state.Single(t => t.Key == "H").Value.to\_i())); Program.Try(() => View.WindowState = state.Single(t => t.Key == "WindowState").Value.ToEnum<FormWindowState>()); });}
public override void EndInit()
{
Program.AppState.RestoreState("appState.xml");
}Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
All Settings are stored in the database, and even cascaded: factory (our) settings -> company settings -> user settings
Klaus-Werner Konrad wrote:
factory (our) settings -> company settings -> user settings
Nice! Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
Back when I was a teenager, I thought saving UI State was all the rage but I soon gave it up. The massive amount of code required to store and manage it and make it all perfect just wasn't worth it. Heck, even today, I have a problem when I load firefox at home. You see I have a laptop hooked up to another monitor. However, that monitor is also wired to another machine. When the other machine is on, Windows on the laptop works fine but when I open something that was previously opened on the second monitor guess where it opens? If Windows and Firefox can't manage to get UI saving settings right why even bother? Plus, if you make an infinitely configurable UI, power users will complain that they can't configure X and that is so obvious or worse an upgrade will wipe their settings and lose you a customer. So, long story short, only save the bare essentials that make the app usable. The rest, don't make configurable unless they ask.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
If Windows and Firefox can't manage to get UI saving settings right why even bother?
Yes, that's one of the issues I think is important to deal with, as I've often had apps open areas that are no longer visible because I've removed a monitor. Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Dang Marc, have you been reading my hard drive again?
Who, me? :~
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
I need to work out an article for just this
That would be great. The impetus, partly, for my survey'ish question is because I've been adding state/configuration persistence to an app, and I was wondering what sort of "best practices" there might be out there. The .NET class seems not configurable enough - I'd like to leave it open to the developer as to how to persist the state information. On the other hand, it also seems to closely coupled to "the Microsoft way", what with all the binding support, not that one needs to use it. At the moment, I've decided to go for an interface-less, more functional approach, resulting in this raw usage example:
public ApplicationFormController()
{
Program.AppState.Register("Form", () =>
{
return new List()
{
new State("X", View.Location.X),
new State("Y", View.Location.Y),
new State("W", View.Size.Width),
new State("H", View.Size.Height),
new State("WindowState", View.WindowState.ToString()),
};}, state => { // Silently handle exceptions for when we add state items that are part of the state file until we // save the state. This allows me to add new state information without crashing the app on startup. Program.Try(() => View.Location = new Point(state.Single(t => t.Key == "X").Value.to\_i(), state.Single(t => t.Key == "Y").Value.to\_i())); Program.Try(() => View.Size = new Size(state.Single(t => t.Key == "W").Value.to\_i(), state.Single(t => t.Key == "H").Value.to\_i())); Program.Try(() => View.WindowState = state.Single(t => t.Key == "WindowState").Value.ToEnum<FormWindowState>()); });}
public override void EndInit()
{
Program.AppState.RestoreState("appState.xml");
}Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogQuote:
// Silently handle exceptions for when we add state items that aren't part of the state file until we
FTFY
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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Quote:
// Silently handle exceptions for when we add state items that aren't part of the state file until we
FTFY
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
Forogar wrote:
FTFY
Why thank you! Correctness in comments is very important! Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogMarc Clifton wrote:
If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ?
Yes, get's used from time to time; there's a wizard integrated into the IDE to manipulate the settings-file, it's defaults, and one can very easily bind to a property and forget about it.
Marc Clifton wrote:
if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ?
The apps state-information is not stored; only preferences, on user and application-scope (local and global). I've tried to save the complete state once (including undo/redo stack) and have the app restore to that state - it just confuses the users.
Marc Clifton wrote:
And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location
Hence the difference between "local" and "global" user-settings. Some things roam, others don't. The form-size doesn't roam, since my monitors have different sizes at different work-locations.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't?
No, not ever. How often do you need to be at that exact place in the tree? If very often, make a shortcut for the user. The reasoning is simlpe; you don't want to wait until the "Windows Explorer" loaded the entire tree, if you can simply click a hyperlink.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth.
The question does not even exist. There's only a warning if something is dirty, but I'm not going to ask the user whether he knows what he/she is doing on every action.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Klaus-Werner Konrad wrote:
factory (our) settings -> company settings -> user settings
Nice! Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogThanks ! I should add, there is a Y/N field in the table that says 'station specific', so I can use one table for user AND station dependant settings, such as directories.
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blogthis.WindowState = FormWindowState.Maximized; this.MinimumSize = this.Size; this.MaximumSize = this.Size;Generally I use the an application config file for persistant settings.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
Marc Clifton wrote:
If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ?
Yes, get's used from time to time; there's a wizard integrated into the IDE to manipulate the settings-file, it's defaults, and one can very easily bind to a property and forget about it.
Marc Clifton wrote:
if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ?
The apps state-information is not stored; only preferences, on user and application-scope (local and global). I've tried to save the complete state once (including undo/redo stack) and have the app restore to that state - it just confuses the users.
Marc Clifton wrote:
And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location
Hence the difference between "local" and "global" user-settings. Some things roam, others don't. The form-size doesn't roam, since my monitors have different sizes at different work-locations.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't?
No, not ever. How often do you need to be at that exact place in the tree? If very often, make a shortcut for the user. The reasoning is simlpe; you don't want to wait until the "Windows Explorer" loaded the entire tree, if you can simply click a hyperlink.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth.
The question does not even exist. There's only a warning if something is dirty, but I'm not going to ask the user whether he knows what he/she is doing on every action.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
you don't want to wait until the "Windows Explorer" loaded the entire tree,
I meant trees like, "to do" lists or some other hierarchical information.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
on user and application-scope (local and global)
That makes sense. Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
If Windows and Firefox can't manage to get UI saving settings right why even bother?
Yes, that's one of the issues I think is important to deal with, as I've often had apps open areas that are no longer visible because I've removed a monitor. Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogIMHO, this is a generic problem: i.e. restoring potentially invalid state. Whenever I restore state (almost always from an editable XML file), my code validates and auto-corrects the data being read. Other examples of this are selecting a tree node that may no longer exist, etc. The bottom line is, it's the developer's responsibility to handle all possible use cases. All this takes additional work and time. And your users will love you for it. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogI typically save a file in the working directory, which allows the user to set up different shortcuts with different preferences if they want, and it makes the app portable as nothing is stored in system folders (or the registry etc) so you can put it on a USB stick. I put default configuration settings into the app as a resource so I can use the same reader to load it.
