What technique do you use to persist state?
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Dang Marc, have you been reading my hard drive again? I have a data class that contains named value pairs and supports String, Integer, Double, Date and Boolean values. These can be read from file in a simple format and used to persist state. The data class is also used for passing between services. It is my general throw around format. I need to work out an article for just this as I have 3-4 more that all use it so the DataSet becomes a pre-requisite article to write. One day...
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Dang Marc, have you been reading my hard drive again?
Who, me? :~
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
I need to work out an article for just this
That would be great. The impetus, partly, for my survey'ish question is because I've been adding state/configuration persistence to an app, and I was wondering what sort of "best practices" there might be out there. The .NET class seems not configurable enough - I'd like to leave it open to the developer as to how to persist the state information. On the other hand, it also seems to closely coupled to "the Microsoft way", what with all the binding support, not that one needs to use it. At the moment, I've decided to go for an interface-less, more functional approach, resulting in this raw usage example:
public ApplicationFormController()
{
Program.AppState.Register("Form", () =>
{
return new List()
{
new State("X", View.Location.X),
new State("Y", View.Location.Y),
new State("W", View.Size.Width),
new State("H", View.Size.Height),
new State("WindowState", View.WindowState.ToString()),
};}, state => { // Silently handle exceptions for when we add state items that are part of the state file until we // save the state. This allows me to add new state information without crashing the app on startup. Program.Try(() => View.Location = new Point(state.Single(t => t.Key == "X").Value.to\_i(), state.Single(t => t.Key == "Y").Value.to\_i())); Program.Try(() => View.Size = new Size(state.Single(t => t.Key == "W").Value.to\_i(), state.Single(t => t.Key == "H").Value.to\_i())); Program.Try(() => View.WindowState = state.Single(t => t.Key == "WindowState").Value.ToEnum<FormWindowState>()); });}
public override void EndInit()
{
Program.AppState.RestoreState("appState.xml");
}Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
All Settings are stored in the database, and even cascaded: factory (our) settings -> company settings -> user settings
Klaus-Werner Konrad wrote:
factory (our) settings -> company settings -> user settings
Nice! Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
Back when I was a teenager, I thought saving UI State was all the rage but I soon gave it up. The massive amount of code required to store and manage it and make it all perfect just wasn't worth it. Heck, even today, I have a problem when I load firefox at home. You see I have a laptop hooked up to another monitor. However, that monitor is also wired to another machine. When the other machine is on, Windows on the laptop works fine but when I open something that was previously opened on the second monitor guess where it opens? If Windows and Firefox can't manage to get UI saving settings right why even bother? Plus, if you make an infinitely configurable UI, power users will complain that they can't configure X and that is so obvious or worse an upgrade will wipe their settings and lose you a customer. So, long story short, only save the bare essentials that make the app usable. The rest, don't make configurable unless they ask.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
If Windows and Firefox can't manage to get UI saving settings right why even bother?
Yes, that's one of the issues I think is important to deal with, as I've often had apps open areas that are no longer visible because I've removed a monitor. Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Dang Marc, have you been reading my hard drive again?
Who, me? :~
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
I need to work out an article for just this
That would be great. The impetus, partly, for my survey'ish question is because I've been adding state/configuration persistence to an app, and I was wondering what sort of "best practices" there might be out there. The .NET class seems not configurable enough - I'd like to leave it open to the developer as to how to persist the state information. On the other hand, it also seems to closely coupled to "the Microsoft way", what with all the binding support, not that one needs to use it. At the moment, I've decided to go for an interface-less, more functional approach, resulting in this raw usage example:
public ApplicationFormController()
{
Program.AppState.Register("Form", () =>
{
return new List()
{
new State("X", View.Location.X),
new State("Y", View.Location.Y),
new State("W", View.Size.Width),
new State("H", View.Size.Height),
new State("WindowState", View.WindowState.ToString()),
};}, state => { // Silently handle exceptions for when we add state items that are part of the state file until we // save the state. This allows me to add new state information without crashing the app on startup. Program.Try(() => View.Location = new Point(state.Single(t => t.Key == "X").Value.to\_i(), state.Single(t => t.Key == "Y").Value.to\_i())); Program.Try(() => View.Size = new Size(state.Single(t => t.Key == "W").Value.to\_i(), state.Single(t => t.Key == "H").Value.to\_i())); Program.Try(() => View.WindowState = state.Single(t => t.Key == "WindowState").Value.ToEnum<FormWindowState>()); });}
public override void EndInit()
{
Program.AppState.RestoreState("appState.xml");
}Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogQuote:
// Silently handle exceptions for when we add state items that aren't part of the state file until we
FTFY
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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Quote:
// Silently handle exceptions for when we add state items that aren't part of the state file until we
FTFY
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
Forogar wrote:
FTFY
Why thank you! Correctness in comments is very important! Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogMarc Clifton wrote:
If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ?
Yes, get's used from time to time; there's a wizard integrated into the IDE to manipulate the settings-file, it's defaults, and one can very easily bind to a property and forget about it.
Marc Clifton wrote:
if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ?
The apps state-information is not stored; only preferences, on user and application-scope (local and global). I've tried to save the complete state once (including undo/redo stack) and have the app restore to that state - it just confuses the users.
Marc Clifton wrote:
And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location
Hence the difference between "local" and "global" user-settings. Some things roam, others don't. The form-size doesn't roam, since my monitors have different sizes at different work-locations.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't?
No, not ever. How often do you need to be at that exact place in the tree? If very often, make a shortcut for the user. The reasoning is simlpe; you don't want to wait until the "Windows Explorer" loaded the entire tree, if you can simply click a hyperlink.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth.
The question does not even exist. There's only a warning if something is dirty, but I'm not going to ask the user whether he knows what he/she is doing on every action.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Klaus-Werner Konrad wrote:
factory (our) settings -> company settings -> user settings
Nice! Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogThanks ! I should add, there is a Y/N field in the table that says 'station specific', so I can use one table for user AND station dependant settings, such as directories.
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blogthis.WindowState = FormWindowState.Maximized; this.MinimumSize = this.Size; this.MaximumSize = this.Size;Generally I use the an application config file for persistant settings.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
Marc Clifton wrote:
If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ?
Yes, get's used from time to time; there's a wizard integrated into the IDE to manipulate the settings-file, it's defaults, and one can very easily bind to a property and forget about it.
Marc Clifton wrote:
if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ?
The apps state-information is not stored; only preferences, on user and application-scope (local and global). I've tried to save the complete state once (including undo/redo stack) and have the app restore to that state - it just confuses the users.
Marc Clifton wrote:
And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location
Hence the difference between "local" and "global" user-settings. Some things roam, others don't. The form-size doesn't roam, since my monitors have different sizes at different work-locations.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't?
No, not ever. How often do you need to be at that exact place in the tree? If very often, make a shortcut for the user. The reasoning is simlpe; you don't want to wait until the "Windows Explorer" loaded the entire tree, if you can simply click a hyperlink.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth.
The question does not even exist. There's only a warning if something is dirty, but I'm not going to ask the user whether he knows what he/she is doing on every action.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
you don't want to wait until the "Windows Explorer" loaded the entire tree,
I meant trees like, "to do" lists or some other hierarchical information.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
on user and application-scope (local and global)
That makes sense. Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
If Windows and Firefox can't manage to get UI saving settings right why even bother?
Yes, that's one of the issues I think is important to deal with, as I've often had apps open areas that are no longer visible because I've removed a monitor. Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogIMHO, this is a generic problem: i.e. restoring potentially invalid state. Whenever I restore state (almost always from an editable XML file), my code validates and auto-corrects the data being read. Other examples of this are selecting a tree node that may no longer exist, etc. The bottom line is, it's the developer's responsibility to handle all possible use cases. All this takes additional work and time. And your users will love you for it. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogI typically save a file in the working directory, which allows the user to set up different shortcuts with different preferences if they want, and it makes the app portable as nothing is stored in system folders (or the registry etc) so you can put it on a USB stick. I put default configuration settings into the app as a resource so I can use the same reader to load it.
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogMy application is a bit different. We run a printing press and related equipment. In that case, there aren't any 'user-specific' data to be persisted. At one time we would have used
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINEin the registry and called it a day, or stored a file with our application. Under Win7, none of that works. Our current solution is a group of XML files stored in the folder returned bySHGetKnownFolderPath(FOLDERID_ProgramData)[^]. I keep waiting for some moron to suggest we store settings data in the 'cloud' even though our machines never have an Internet connection...Software Zen:
delete this; -
No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogI the app I'm working on at the moment there s some I the db, som in the app config and soe in a text file cleverly renamed as a dell so the user doesn't try to edit it!!!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogXML file, even wrote an article about it way back. I rarely needed the persistence and now I use Silverlight and they don't get a choice.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I like to randomise it on every load to keep people on their toes. Seriously though, where I need to I roll my own - XML file normally to save the data, then my own class on top so that I can make sure it's strongly typed. Probably not the most efficient possible, but if I can add XML comments to my settings class the intellisense saves me a load of frustration trying to remember stuff.
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No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogMost applications use a data store for business data anyway. Why not use a partition of this data store for application state data?
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Most applications use a data store for business data anyway. Why not use a partition of this data store for application state data?
Brady Kelly wrote:
Why not use a partition of this data store for application state data?
Of course, but I was curious if people actually do that, or store config info elsewhere. Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My Blog -
No, not a programming question, and no, not a "recover from a Friday drinking binge" question. Just curious, what different techniques people use (specifically for WinForm apps). Do you roll your own persistence class? If you're a .NET developer, do you use ApplicationSettingsBase[^] ? I'm also curious, if you develop client/server apps, if you store your app's state information locally or in a database so that your user can use any client machine and the UI is configured to their preferences ? And yes, I'm talking about UI things, such as last window size and location, but also more interesting things such as what columns the user selected to be visible on a grid, what display order, what sort order, etc. Same with, say, a tree control - what nodes were expanded and what nodes weren't? Plus things like "exit without asking" info, and so forth. Heck, do you even save the user's preferences / state of the UI? Marc
Latest Article: C# and Ruby Classes: A Deep Dive
My BlogI use ApplicationSettingsBase when the configuration only applies to one application and one user, otherwise I may use a custom XML configuration file somewhere in a public folder, or use a database.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
