Apparently the customer knows best...
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doesn't make it untrue
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
doesn't make that's why it's untrue
FTFY ;)
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Yeah, its tempting to turn around and say "I cannot match that timescale and understand you are taking you business elsewhere" if only I had the courage
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
It's not about courage, it's about the need for the job... if you don't need it too much, then you have a more dominant position in which you can press a little bit more, if you need it desperately then you are screwed. I remember time ago one guy that told me: "I have this amount of money to spend in the programming of 4 robot cells but I don't know exactly what has to be done". It would have been a nice amount of money if the job would have lasted for 6 or 7 months, but without knowing what was involved, and knowing the amount of available time was almost a year I decided to let it go. Customers some times... X|
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
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So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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I've been thinking exactly that. I'm guessing that he has about 15 years more experience than me though :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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I've been thinking exactly that. I'm guessing that he has about 15 years more experience than me though :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Ask yourself why he needs you if he has so much experience. I would be inclined to call his bluff, and tell him your estimate stands. Then he has the choice, accept your estimate and pay, or do it himself. Unless, of course, you really need the money.
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Ask yourself why he needs you if he has so much experience. I would be inclined to call his bluff, and tell him your estimate stands. Then he has the choice, accept your estimate and pay, or do it himself. Unless, of course, you really need the money.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
Unless, of course, you really need the money.
It's really a customer of my employer, so I'm getting paid either way :D Anyway, I'm just taking the time I need (which is three to four days) and my employer backs me up on this, so no problem :thumbsup: And no further complaints from the customer either :)
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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I've heard epic tales of their ignorance, yet now I've met one myself I'm still surprised :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Sounds like the biggest issue is going to be the customer.
Sander Rossel wrote:
So why have me do it then?
Exactly if he has the experience!
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.1 new web site. When you are dead you don't know it, it's only difficult for others. It's the same when you're stupid.
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So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Is his name "Jeff"? I worked for a Jeff once that said things like that all the time. He had once written some software in COBOL which apparently showed him that he was an expert programmer and all things were easy. This is why he always thought software developers were obviously overpaid and were constantly lying to him about how long things would take.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Is his name "Jeff"? I worked for a Jeff once that said things like that all the time. He had once written some software in COBOL which apparently showed him that he was an expert programmer and all things were easy. This is why he always thought software developers were obviously overpaid and were constantly lying to him about how long things would take.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
No, his name isn't Jeff :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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I've heard epic tales of their ignorance, yet now I've met one myself I'm still surprised :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
But... I get this sort of shit all the time, a manager who used to be a developer 25 years ago, in VB, concludes a meeting by saying, oh that should take about x days/weeks/months so I want it delivered in x-10%. 3 days later will also give you another project to complete in parallel, no change to the deadline!.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Sounds like a Dilbert thing :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
There is indeed a comic about just that, but I can't seem to find it. Take this instead: http://dilbert.com/strip/2013-10-19[^] ;)
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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I've heard epic tales of their ignorance, yet now I've met one myself I'm still surprised :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
You do know how they get salesmen? http://dilbert.com/strip/2006-07-29[^] ;P
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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Is his name "Jeff"? I worked for a Jeff once that said things like that all the time. He had once written some software in COBOL which apparently showed him that he was an expert programmer and all things were easy. This is why he always thought software developers were obviously overpaid and were constantly lying to him about how long things would take.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
People lying is a reasonable expectation. Just think about it: http://dilbert.com/strip/2011-02-20[^]:cool:
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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You do know how they get salesmen? http://dilbert.com/strip/2006-07-29[^] ;P
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
:laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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But... I get this sort of shit all the time, a manager who used to be a developer 25 years ago, in VB, concludes a meeting by saying, oh that should take about x days/weeks/months so I want it delivered in x-10%. 3 days later will also give you another project to complete in parallel, no change to the deadline!.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
It's absurd that logic and reasoning seem to be the opposite of one's power... :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
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It's absurd that logic and reasoning seem to be the opposite of one's power... :doh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Actually said manager is brilliant, just not at estimating development resources, or managing minions. He manages senior management rather well!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Sounds like a Dilbert thing :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
Yes, that's from Dilbert
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So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
I once helped staff an industry specific software presentation where loads of people were invited to come along for demonstrations cake and coffee I had one potential who, for every aspect of the software I demonstrated, told me that his existing self made solution was faster, better, wider and cheaper. I took this for a while and then stood up, handed him back his business card, and told him that we couldn't help him. He seemed shocked and I know everyone else in the room was as well but you just cannot help some people It depends on how confident you are in your own abilities and how desperate you are for the work. That was about 30 years ago and I am still working in the same market place today and also still have some of the same clients that became customers around that time (I would love to have said that particular demo day but cannot remember for sure)
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So I have to make a little something for a customer. Basically they want to name a stored procedure and all of its parameters in the database after which a user can select a procedure in the application, fill in values for the parameters and have the data shown in a grid. So we have dynamic types (for parameters) with dynamic default values, dynamic forms, dynamic results, etc. Still, no problem. So I gave a estimate of three to four days for the entire thing. I get an email from the customer asking me to explain why it would take so long. His experience taught him it would take two days max. So I explained I need to have a little room for issues (I'm working in the customer's software, with third party tools, that aren't completely known to me), that I need to test, and that working with all that dynamic data can be tricky. I get another email back "In my experience working on this kind of solution isn't tricky at all!" So why have me do it then? :doh: I already ran into an issue and his proposed solution wasn't going to work. That's half a day on 'issues' already! :laugh:
Visit my blog at Sander's bits - Writing the code you need. Or read my articles at my CodeProject profile.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. — Edsger W. Dijkstra
Regards, Sander
"Good, Quick, Cheap. Pick any two." Said with a smile, it can be tactfully delivered. Doesn't work worth a damn in an email or text. :)
Cheers, Mike Fidler "I intend to live forever - so far, so good." Steven Wright "I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met." Also Steven Wright
