sub-humans at it again

John Carson

Mike Gaskey wrote: John Carson wrote: Declaring a nation won't get rid of the Israelis. No, they're not going anywhere. After being hounded by the rest of humanity for 2,000 years they intent to both survive and succeed. I meant get rid of them from the West Bank and Gaza strip, not get rid of them from Israel. Incidentally, it is worth noting that the hounding of Jews by Arabs/Muslims is largely a 20th century phenomenon. Historically, most of the persecution of Jews has been by "Christian" nations. They were a particular target of the Spanish Inquisition, for example, having been more or less left alone when Spain was under Muslim rule. The Arab-Israeli conflict was a 20th century creation of the British (see below). Mike Gaskey wrote: That isn't the point I attempted to make and apparently not clear enough. If the Palestinians had the cojones to declare a nation, 95% of the UN member nations would recognize them as a nation. Then they would, as I said earlier, be drowned in aid and opportunity. This is just nonsensical. The West Bank and Gaza Strip are run as police states by the Israelis. They already depend heavily on foreign aid. How any nation under foreign occupation can be considered to be "drowing in opportunity" is beyond me. Mike Gaskey wrote: Again, the only thing I see holding them back is the fact they would then be forced to succeed as a nation and couldn't whine that, :the Israelis won't let us have our own country". Both would have to negotiate and neither could turn down UN/EU/US/Russian monitors o guarantee some degree of real peace. The real fact is the Palestinians DO NOT WANT A NATION, they want the death of Israeli. You seem to know nothing of the relevant history of Palestine. Let me summarise. In 1920, the population in Palestine (i.e., the area that is now Israel plus the West Bank and Gaza Strip) was roughly 90% Arab and 10% Jewish. Jews had been a small minority in Palestine since being dispersed by the Romans after a failed revolt in the 2nd century AD. The British became administrators of Palestine in the aftermath of WWI and promoted large scale Jewish immigration into Palestine with the intention of creating a Jewish homeland. This was done without consulting the existing residents and in spite of their strong opposition. The Arab majority believed that the British had previously promised support for the establishment of an independent self-governing nation in Palestine i

KaRl

Mike Gaskey wrote: This is conquered land, not occupied, but conquered Oh, that's part of the Great Israel, then. You're right, let's promote the use of force and territorial annexions. May the stronger win. Vive la Guerre!

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Mike Gaskey

KaЯl wrote: You're right, let's promote the use of force and territorial annexions. Nah. Let's hug'em to death. Mike

KaRl

It that part of free expression to call to murder and promote genocide?

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Stan Shannon

Reading the responses to your post it is absolutely incredible how many westerners just cannot bring themselves to blame the Islamic world for the violence going on in the middle east. It seems to all be about moral equivalency: "Everyone's to blame, so no one's to blame" Personally, I don't care if Israel is destroyed. They never should have been there in the first place, and I don't blame the Palestinians for being angry about the situation. But all of that is beside the point. The point is that Islam is a culture of voilence, hatred and intolerance, and becomeing increasingly more so. The reason has nothing at all to do with anything we have ever done to them. That is simply the way their culture is, always has been, and always will be. We in the west have got to get it through our heads that when it comes to Islam we have two choices - submit to it or destroy it.

Terry ONolley

KaЯl wrote: and promote genocide? I take it you are talking about the Palestinians pledge to drive all jews into the sea?

David Wulff

Good grief Stan, how many Muslims do you actually know? I'll wager there are none... :wtf:

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the real world, it's just not the same world shared by most other people"

Mike Gaskey

KaЯl wrote: It that part of free expression to call to murder and promote genocide? Not sure. Let's check with Arafat, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah, Al Aqusa, PLO - and see what they think. But yes. If you murder one of mine then your's are fair game. However, I did suggest a solution you just don't like it. I'll try once more --> declare a nation (it doesn't matter a squat that you're "occupied", you'll always be "occupied" as long as it is necessary for ,"my" protection.) Mike

Mike Gaskey

Stan Shannon wrote: We in the west have got to get it through our heads that when it comes to Islam we have two choices - submit to it or destroy it. I agree, at least based on my reading of the basis for the religion. Mike

Terry ONolley

Mike Gaskey wrote: at least based on my reading of the basis for the religion And a groovy religion it is too! Since the mullahs are beieved to be endowed with holy powers, anything they say carries the weight of god. So they tell you to slaughter thousands of innocent people and you'll go to an afterlife where you get to bone dozens of virgins. Sounds like a group of gentlement who don't plan on living at peace with their neighbors. And when you combine that mindset with the economic, scientific and military powers of an oil-rich nation-state then you have the recipe for disaster. Only a naive ferf would think that nations founded on those beliefs wouldn't do their "holy duty" by nuking America if we were just stupid enough to allow them to get their hands on one. And of course several euro "powers" choose the appeasemnet route - buying their own safety by selling those terror states the knowledge and hardware they need to kill us.

Mike Gaskey

yes! Mike

Terry ONolley

KaЯl wrote: I don't side with any of them, neither palestinian no israeli. neither on the side of the killers of 900 israeli, nor on the side of the killers of 3000 palestinian You can claim you don't support the terrorists, but every comment you make shows your true feelings. Take this little nugget above. You make a point to show that Israel has killed more Palestinians. You don't tell the real story - the Israelis killed were mostly innocents - murdered by terrorists. The palestinians were mainly killed in military operations against terrorists.

KaRl

You took it the wrong way.

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

KaRl

Terry O`Nolley wrote: but every comment you make shows your true feelings So we have another Freud there. Terry O`Nolley wrote: You make a point to show that Israel has killed more Palestinians I make a point that on both sides innocent where killed. Terry O`Nolley wrote: The palestinians were mainly killed in military operations against terrorists. Exact figures? Or is it just another affirmation?

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

KaRl

Mike Gaskey wrote: you just don't like it I didn't argue about this solution because for the moment I have no firm opinion about it. I just don't see how a formal declaration of statehood could change the situation. Do you think the US and Israel are ready to recognize such a state? :confused:

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Mike Gaskey

KaЯl wrote: Do you think the US and Israel are ready to recognize such a state? The US would be one of the last, then Israel. The point is, once it is declared the rest of the world has no choice - especially given what I believe to be the majority of world opinion. Mike

KaRl

Mike Gaskey wrote: The point is, once it is declared the rest of the world has no choice I don't understand. No choice of what? Recognize a palestinian state? COuld you please also develop why an official declaration of statehood would solve the problem?

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Stan Shannon

How many do I need to know? If I knew a thousand and they were all the nicest people on the planet what significance would that have? My first thought would be: "Geez, if you people are so nice why don't you go back to your own contries and take care of those murderous bastards that are killing in the name of your religion." The fact that they don't seem inclined to do that tells me every thing I need to know about "nice" Muslims. Sorry, but I'm just not inclined to be generous towards such people. I want them to proove to me that they are worthy of my civilization, because it is lightyears better than their's.

Mike Gaskey

KaЯl wrote: No choice of what? Recognize a palestinian state? precisely. KaЯl wrote: why an official declaration of statehood would solve the problem? puts everything on a different plane. A physcological gambit that I believe works for the Palestinians, as long as they stop the terror. It then all comes down to negotiations that would be monitored by the rest of the world. At that point warriors no longer have a role, Arafat and Sharon and similar types are marginalized and it is a diplomatic game from then on. Mike

David Wulff

Stan Shannon wrote: How many do I need to know? Just one would be enough, and then you may actually be able to gain an understanding for the basis of their religion that did not come from CNN. :| Go on a visit to your local Mosque - they will be more than happy to welcome you in and answer all the questions you may have. I didn't want to have to say this because I find it astonishing it even needs mentioning, but doing something in the name of a religion and doing something as disposed through a religion are not the same thing. I should not need to remind anyone that every atrocity and every war ever fought has been done in the name of one religion or ideal or another by people with strength of belief on par with those in the limelight today. That's what religion does: it allows individuals to justify decisions through their own interpretations of its teachings (just look at the bigger groups in Christianity) - but the decisions are up to them to make. Stan Shannon wrote: My first thought would be: "Geez, if you people are so nice why don't you go back to your own contries and take care of those murderous bastards that are killing in the name of your religion." That I think is probably where we are disagreeing from - you seem to be coming from an 'us' and 'them' standpoint, rather than merely an 'us'. That is a major hurdle in this country with immigrants trying to settle here; and that leads to deeper puddles of shit than merely going round murdering children. :(

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the real world, it's just not the same world shared by most other people"