sub-humans at it again

Chris Losinger

Terry O`Nolley wrote: the mullahs are beieved to be endowed with holy powers, anything they say carries the weight of god. how unusual. i can't think of any other religion that works like that. ImgSource | CheeseWeasle

Terry ONolley

KaЯl wrote: I just don't see how a formal declaration of statehood could change the situation. If the Palestinians accepted their borders, renounced terrorism, acknowledged Israel's right to exist and then declared statehood a lot of nations would recognize their existence. KaЯl wrote: Do you think the US and Israel are ready to recognize such a state? First off, it wouldn't matter. Such an issue would be settled in the general assembly of the UN, not the security council. I have no doubt that membership to the UN would be granted to the new state of Palestine. Israel and the US's choice to not recognize that state would have no bearing on the matter. But I believe that Israel and the US would recognize such a state because to not do so would look quite bad - seeing as that is what we have been trying to accomplish for decades. The only ones who don't want a Palestinian state that recognizes Israel's right to exist are Iran, Syria, Libya, Egypt and a minority of the Palestinians who are terrorists.

Terry ONolley

Mike Gaskey wrote: The real fact is the Palestinians DO NOT WANT A NATION, they want the death of Israeli. And the Palestinians are merely meat-puppet marionettes whose mouths are being moved by Iranians and Syrians.

Terry ONolley

David Wulff wrote: That I think is probably where we are disagreeing from - you seem to be coming from an 'us' and 'them' standpoint, rather than merely an 'us'. That is a major hurdle in this country with immigrants trying to settle here; and that leads to deeper puddles of sh*t than merely going round murdering children I think "merely" murdering children is worse than being suspicious of a religious group who commits terrorist acts every day in the name of that religion.

David Wulff

People are murdered, children too if you like emotive language... should we tackle the effects or the cause? Suspicion, a lack of trust, destroys far more lives than bullets and bombs.

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the real world, it's just not the same world shared by most other people"

KaRl

Terry O`Nolley wrote: If the Palestinians accepted their borders The ones drawn by Israel? Terry O`Nolley wrote: acknowledged Israel's right to exist They already have. Terry O`Nolley wrote: renounced terrorism They should Terry O`Nolley wrote: I believe that Israel and the US would recognize such a state because to not do so would look quite bad the Israeli governement doesn't want a palestinian state: "All of this is achievable only if we stop expressing any agreement for a Palestinian state in wide swaths of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. There must not be a state such as this, and therefore, there must not be any talk encouraging it. Local leaders with local autonomy, yes. But a state? No! " Terry O`Nolley wrote: minority of the Palestinians who are terrorists. These ones really believe they are winning the war and don't understand their are crushing their cause.

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Mike Gaskey wrote: 1) Palestinians do not want a nation, they want the death of Israel Uhm. Now you're generalizing quite a bit! I know there are people in the south of the US who just loves dragging colored people behind their trucks. Am I to believe that all white people in the US loves doing this? Have you ever talked to a palestinian? Most of them just wants to go about their own business, just like you do every day. But they can't! And some of these people resort to extreme violence. If the US was equivalent to Palestinia, and Canadia was Israel, I'm sure terrorist cells would pop up everywhere in the US. Mike Gaskey wrote: 2) Palestinians could have their own nation simply by declaring it And how the hell would that be possible? Israel wouldn't let them. You can't just declare a nation within the borders of another nation. -- Stukas! Stukas im Visier!

Terry ONolley

KaЯl wrote: Defend their people, yes, help the settlers, no. I agree with this. Israel's settlement activity has always disturbed me. It erodes their credibility. Israel should leave the occupied territories, remove all settlements and finish that fence. THey should help push for Palestinian statehood so that when the next terrorist blows up an Israeli day-care center they can declare war on Palestine and finish it once and for all.

KaRl

So why what that refused by Clinton? :confused: http://www.focus-on-israel.org/news144.htm[^] "In the clearest terms since the meltdown at Camp David, Arafat reiterated during a stopover in Saudi Arabia that he will declare a Palestinian state next month despite threats and objections from the US [...] Clinton also has been personally lobbying European Union members not to give the Palestinians a green light for statehood by pledging to recognize it [...]

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Mike Gaskey

KaЯl wrote: So why what that refused by Clinton? Wrong question. The question should be, "why didn't Arafat do it?" The answer is encapsulated in my earlier statements. The Palestinians, leadership at lest, have no desire to do anything except wipe out Israel. As long as that is true, Israel has my support, the support of the US government and I would guess a majority of Americans. Frankly, I would applaud the most drastic action possible on the part of Israelis from today on. My statement, "sub-humans" was not chosen lightly. Mike

Mike Gaskey

Chris Losinger wrote: how unusual. i can't think of any other religion that works like that. Nor can I. The closest would be the Roman Catholic Church where the belief is that the Pope in infallible in metters of faith. It doesn't, today at least, extend past faith. Mike

Chris Losinger

IMO, the Moonies beat the Catholics in the Infallible Leader category. and as for "holy powers", i think any of the "faith-healer" sects qualify for that. ImgSource | CheeseWeasle

Mike Gaskey

Chris Losinger wrote: the Moonies You're right, I had forgotten about these guys. Faith healers, not sure here - I don't know how controlling (mind) those guys are. My only exposure is the old flick, Elmer Gantry. Mike

Chris Losinger

about the faith healers... Terry's post said that muslim holy men are thought to hold "holy powers" (in addition to the infallibility thing). i assume any outsider looking at a Christian faith-healer sect would assume the "holy men" (preachers) were thought to have "holy powers" too. and, maybe they would think the same of Catholic preists' ability to forgive sins... -c ImgSource | CheeseWeasle

Mike Gaskey

Okay, I see what you mean. I think you're right on both counts. Mike

Terry ONolley

Mike Gaskey wrote: they should borrow a couple of MOABs and put them to use I'll bet they make pretty colors when they go off.......

Terry ONolley

I concur. I guess that makes it official!

Terry ONolley

Catholics used to believe that. That the priesthood was chosen, etc. Islamic mullahs are descended from Mohammed and they choose their successors - passing on the infallible will of Allah.

Stan Shannon

I don't buy into any of that BS. All of this violence is coming out of their culture. Period. *They* should be doing something about it. If they want me to know something about their religion - let them walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Until then, they can stick their goddamned Koran up their flaming asses where it belongs. David Wulff wrote: That's what religion does: it allows individuals to justify decisions through their own interpretations of its teachings (just look at the bigger groups in Christianity) - but the decisions are up to them to make. Sure, Dave, its all the same thing. We've got Jerry Falwell and they've got bin Ladin - exactly the same. How stupid of me. Good 'ol moral equivalency comes to the rescue again. David Wulff wrote: That I think is probably where we are disagreeing from - you seem to be coming from an 'us' and 'them' standpoint, rather than merely an 'us'. Damn right I am, and proudly so. As soon as they proove to me by their own actions that they believe in the concept of "us", then I will be perfectly willing to meet them half way. David Wulff wrote: That is a major hurdle in this country with immigrants trying to settle here; and that leads to deeper puddles of sh*t than merely going round murdering children. Wow, is your country evil or what? Makes you wonder why they come there in such large numbers eh? Maybe the Muslims can finally teach you guys some civilization. Wait around, I'm sure they will be happy to.

David Wulff

Here's an interesting thought - if the majority of the world follows Islam, surely the ideal of democracy which you hold so tight to your heart dictates that you should submit to their ideals and not the reverse? I don't care about Palestine or Israel in this context, we are talking about the religion of Islam as a whole now. There is not much more I can say to you Stan, your mind is very clearly already set regardless of what *anyone* may say to you, and you have stated that you care not to educate yourself on these issues. All I can tell you is that I *personally* spoke with the Imam of my local Mosque about the ideals of Islam and what it stands for where the two main followings are concerned, and he took great care (and pride, if that means anything to you) to ensure that I understood. He even invited me to kneel in front of Mecca, something which had great significance to him. This may have been a few months before the whole of Islam was once again dragged through our Western mud with the events of September 2001 and thereafter, but the views of the vocal minority like yourself had not had any effect on those ideals when he was interviewed by the local media after some racist shit threw severed pig heads though their Mosque windows not twelve months later. Yes, I freely admit to having taken that attack personally, even though I do not submit to the beliefs of any religion, because having experienced that hospitality from a community of total strangers that I have yet to see mirrored elsewhere I find it utterly abhorable that anybody could stand to slander their name; their culture; their beliefs, yet hold no wish to understand them. And here's the clincher Stan - that anybody is Usama Bin Laden, that anybody is the latest Islamic Jihad bomber, that anybody is the racist shit who committed a human-rights violation when he vandalised that Mosque, and, Stan, that anybody is you. You ought to move to Britain - the BNP[^] are growing really short of people with views as strong as yours. :|

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the