brianwelsch wrote: Does that mean we're all really following Satanist doctrine? NO, it means that the (LeVay) Satanist doctrine was formulated with great knowledge of the human nature, and that's actually my point. When it comes to doing good, the new testament and LeVay's bible agrees, it's the reason for doing good that differs. Turning the other cheek business is another story though... brianwelsch wrote: I think taking military action as a way to prove a generalization of the citizens is way off base. Bad judgement in foreign policy doesn't equal a purely selfish society. In a democracy everybody has to take responsibility, the citizens are responsible for their leaders, so when the leaders starts a war, they do it on a mandate from the citizens. And everybody must share the blame whether they voted for the warlord or not, because by supporting the system that elected him, you also honors his rights to start a war. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus