I do it through continuous database integration... http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~Piquet/blog/index.php/continuous-database-integration/[^] Peter Hancock My blog is here And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

They will need to deal with it eventually. But by enforcing a strict checkout - checkin principle first you can alleviate many of the merges right from the start. Get users used to using SCM in the first place. I've had massive issues in just about every company I've worked in where people are just plain scared of merging. Strict checkout checkin eliminates huge amounts of merges. The branch manager then manages the merge of fix into the main stream. Unfortunately, you need to set up the system for the lowest common denominator. Sure - it's great to educate the end user, but if they're fresh out of Uni, well, none of the Uni's around here teach anything about source control. Let's just get them using it in an easier to grok model. Personally, I really don't think the IT industry will mature for a long time yet. It's been over 40 years and we are nowhere near it yet. Other industries matured far more rapidly, look at production lines, food handling, medical, aerospatial. Most of those showed huge gains in maturity within decades, yet IT is so far behind. I think it's mainly because the shape of IT now is nothing like it was forty years ago. It changes so fast. Even the fundamentals are different. (Processing power and memory are now cheap, and manpower is expensive, versus 40 years ago when manpower was cheap and processing/memory were expensive) We need to accept that and be pragmatic. I prefer the edit merge model, but in my experience, I've had more troubles with users than with the checkout / edit / checkin. People (in my experience) grok the library model more easily. It doesn't make it technically better, but if people are using it... (beta / vhs argument) Peter Hancock My blog is here And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

One of the things that I find particularly interesting from reading all of these comments above, is that ANY of the people that have replied so far could use either method effectively. The problem isn't us. We're looking at what we feel. The issue I have at the moment is with the people that code that just aren't into coding for codings sake. They're not all that interested in learning new techniques. It's a job, they get their paycheck, and they go home. They don't read forums when they should be with their partner, they don't program on weekends instead of walking in the sun, and they don't understand the finer nuances of source control. So the problem is far simpler. How do you get the to develop in a collaborative environment with the best possible chance of minimising damage? For mine - the answer is quite simple. Enforce safety. Enforce communication. Peter Hancock My blog is here And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Taka Muraoka wrote: All the source files were stored on a server and their idea of source control was you temporarily put your name at the top of the file when you started editing it to alert anyone else opening the file We weren't at the same company were we? ;) I'd agree with Taka here. I've just been working through a CVS implementation at the moment, and it's great. There was a small group of J2EE developers where it worked beautifully. But now, the team has grown fairly rapidly, and whilst the theory of being able to worry about your developers not communicating- (ie - Paul Watsons comment earlier - "That if you can't trust your devs to get SCM right then you should be worrying about other things first, like their coding capabilities.") is great, the practice just isn't. Only one developer not familiar with the practice needs to come in, and they might be the best coder in the world, just unfamiliar with your own particular SCM, and the whole thing breaks. You only need it to happen once, and the confidence goes. One broken window, and the next thing, the whole Jag has been stripped. The same argument applies for build servers. Why do continuous integration servers run unit tests? Apply the same philosophy, and we could say "We don't NEED unit tests on the build server. All our developers unit test before they check in, and if they don't, we should be worrying about other things first..." Why rely on people using common sense when you can enforce it? ;) Peter Hancock My blog is here And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Too clever by half. And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

I just took your ridiculous and raised you a ludicrous. Err... that's not what they wrote. I CAN tell you - but then I'd have to kill you. And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

You wouldn't need a VPN though. Security isn't that much of an issue. And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Hmm... $9.50 an hour. USD. Can I work from home? I just lost my job - so I'm kinda keen here ;-) And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Oh dear... So now those poor touch typing receptionists will constantly be on the phone to support - "My keyboard won't work!" And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Vikram Punathambekar wrote: pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking. That is fantastic!!! And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

He wouldn't. They actually sweep the roads before the race.:-D And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

This was at the Hawaiian Ironman. I know him. He lost 3(?) inches of his intestines because of it and was rushed to hospital. He is an awesome athlete. And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

That's funny.;P:-D And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Taka Muraoka wrote: I would very much dispute that. Most techs aren't very good at the non-technical stuff. and then you state Taka Muraoka wrote: Bullshit. There are plenty of technical people out there who are perfectly capable of managing but choose not to. You can't have it both ways. I agree with your second statement though... and my comment "if they knew so much, they'd be a manager" was said tongue in cheek. I shoulda put [sarcasm] around it. Taka Muraoka wrote: Anyway, so many problems stem from this divide between managers and developers that you suggest. With this - I agree wholeheartedly. And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

:-D I like it! Taka Muraoka wrote: The point was that the new owner, having more experience, put in place a process that significantly improved the quality of the results that took no extra time (in fact, probably saved a bit of time) and had nothing to do with the skill of the people actually doing the work. However - this is still a "technical" solution - albeit very low tech. A measurement was made as to the level of coffee that should be used to change the pot, based on prior expertise and experience. technical a) Having special skill or practical knowledge especially in a mechanical or scientific field: a technical adviser. b) Used in or peculiar to a specific field or profession; specialized: technical terminology. And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Taka Muraoka wrote: Not realising that the *underlying* problems are caused by not understanding how people work, operate and communicate. In other words, social, interpersonal issues rather than technical issues. The problem though, is that often technical people ARE aware of the bigger issues, however they know they can't do anything about them. So what's the point of dwelling on these issues? Instead, focus on changing the things that they CAN change, and let the CEO appoint a management consultant to tell them about the people issues instead. Nobody listens to (or likes) a technical person that speaks up about managerial issues. Hey - if the techo knew so much, they'd be a manager. And this works the same in the other direction. How many developers like a manager telling them how to build something? This is not to say that the techo (or manager) doesn't have something valuable to add. Just that they're not likely to be listened to. Really though... I think I'll just focus on getting the daily task done, and let my passion for my work dissipate into triathlon training or something equally unproductive. (but infinitely more enjoyable) And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

You weren't in the same meeting as me then were you?;P And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Sure.... what do you want me to touch my forehead with? My left hand, or my right hand?:-D And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

Different muscles. I do ridiculous amounts of triathlon, and my 60-70km per week running still doesn't help my cycling when I first try to get back on the bike. It does improve more rapidly though than if you weren't running at all. And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel

I'm pretty sure you can.... as long as the library that you are linking in excludes the same cpp files from its build. Otherwise you'll end up with multiply defined functions and classes in the obj file. Why can't you just compile and link the library, and include only the headers? And they still ran faster and faster and faster, till they all just melted away, and there was nothing left but a great big pool of melted butter "I ask candidates to create an object model of a chicken." -Bruce Eckel