Hi, You are right: LCC-Win32 can make very small programs, but this is because its C-run-time is smaller than visual-c's However, Visual C can optimize much better than LCC-Win32, so you will reach a point when VisualC is making smaller programs than LCC once your program's source get bigger. By the way, I regularly create 2Kb programs in Visual C, by removing the C-run-time and using pure WinAPI instead. Look for an article by Matt Pietrek on MSDN magazine, Janurary 2001, entitled "Under the hood". This is an update of the original October 1996 October 1996 by Matt, when it appeared in MSJ magazine. Here's the link: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/01/01/hood/hood0101.asp James.