Randor wrote:
I have experienced this bug in Visual Studio 2005 in several of my projects. Its very annoying and I hope it was fixed in 2008.
I fear not... just had a similar problem myself in VS 2008, and deleting the .ncb fixed the issue here too. Cheers,
Billy. MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Richard, Thanks for the link.. I'll take a look. It does look like its Team System specific, but could be a starting point. Cheers,
Billy. MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Hi folks, I'm currently working on some new functionality using Agile, and Test Driven Development where we can. I'd like to extend our foray into Test Driven to our database stored procedures so we can black box test them from .Net, and also automate the testing if possible (which looks like it might be no mean feat!) Add to that, we have Oracle and SQL-Server databases which have identical logic, and would like to ensure that:
We currently us NUnit for testing business logic, so anything that can integrate into this framework easily would help. also we use Cruise Control, for continous integration So if anyone knows a good book, advice, experience or highly recommended online resource would help on the subject of database logic testing. Anything that would give me a starting point would be ideal, as I've got a little bit of information overload! If this isn't the place to post this please let me know. I'll repost in the right place. Any help is really appreciated. Cheers,
Billy. MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous "Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again." - Franklin P. Jones my holding page..more coming soon!
c2423 wrote:
Arrrr! Send me the codez, says I!
Nay, for you'll be for the keel-hauling....then we'll throw you to the fishies.... Aharrrrrrr!!!
Cap'n Billy Red Beard! MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Christian Graus wrote:
I think you mean that you hate CSS. Who doesn't ? What a nightmare that stuff is.
I have to agree.. I've spent many a wasted hour using CSS trying to get the correct line-up on an HTML element... :sigh:
Billy. MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Egads. Ada is so, like, 80's.
We were being taught ADA-95 right up till 2003 at my Uni... those were the days... :rolleyes: They then moved to Java! Maybe one day i'll use it again.... :laugh:
Billy. MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
loving the chuck norris references! :laugh:
Billy. MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Scott, Pretty much you've hit the nail on the head. And you've given some good arguments to take away and use to help things along...
Scott Dorman wrote:
Eventually everyone will become so tired of the back and forth that you can step in and suggest a compromise based on what you heard from both sides. That's the key - you need to make both sides understand that you have been listening to the entire argument, that you see the benefits in both options and that you aren't taking sides but merely suggesting a compromise.
I'm pretty much more of a listener in these things than a talker so what you suggest might be the move that could be made, specially considering the arguments are of the "holy war" type you speak of, and they do end up getting nowhere.
Scott Dorman wrote:
Getting buy-in from the developers is usually easier than getting buy-in from management. Managements arguement is almost always "we don't have the time/resources/budget to spend", which is usually the case. However, you need to be able to show that by not having a standard in place it is harder to transition people from one project to another, harder to diagnose and correct problems, and ultimately leads to a less stable code base. This is, of course, almost all subjective as it is difficult to actually put numbers to any of these concepts.
As for the management thing, I think I'll have the opportunity to talk about this and the other concerns I have with them as a review is coming up. if that doesn't work then maybe one of the other approaches need to be taken.
Scott Dorman wrote:
It usually ends up being a combination. Some things can be defined by one person and then presented to the team; others will need consensus or at least involvment from other people on the team. This is especially important if you have "entrenched" developers who are very resistant to change. By getting them involved, they feel they are being given a voice and included in the process. Sometimes that's all it takes to get them to open up and embrace the new ideas.
This may well be the way forward, if no one else takes the lead, then maybe with the right prep, good information under my belt and a good presentation I could do it...and involvement from the team certainly will help! Once again i'll take all the advice on board, so thanks! :) Also if anyone knows of any good
dilton_dalton wrote:
If that doesn't work, then sedition may. In every organization there is a developer that is looked up to by nearly everyone. Recruit him/her. If he/she starts to use the standard that you produced (with perhaps a few changes) in his/her own work and as a guide for code reviews then its use is likely to spread. Again, peer pressure is a good tool to promote compliance.
Heres the thing ... theres no formal code review process either...I had one person check my code when I started, then after that it appears we're left to our own devices, so its possible the code may get crap in it. that was last year! there no agreement on the way forward on code reviews either (it has been discussed), because people discussing how to do this are scared of hurting developers feelings and I think they're worried the rubbish will be out in the open (IMO).! also management will only do stuff if it costs nothing in terms of resource or cost, and they are quite entrenched in their ways... not sure how I can move forward with that...
dilton_dalton wrote:
If that doesn't work, then sedition may. In every organization there is a developer that is looked up to by nearly everyone. Recruit him/her. If he/she starts to use the standard that you produced (with perhaps a few changes) in his/her own work and as a guide for code reviews then its use is likely to spread. Again, peer pressure is a good tool to promote compliance.
I wish I could say that there was a long-time developer who we could "look up" to and is well respected enough for their word to matter... but the people here seem to have an indifferent attitude. One the newer guys have suggested a similar scheme where we took a section of work and said " we sohuld sit down and take a look to see how can we improve this" in a meeting, but it appears very few were interested. So there are deeper problems than this, and looks like an almost vertical struggle (cue brick wall) ...i'm obviously in the wrong place!
Billy. MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Thanks very much for taking the time on this post, it's given me a lot of food for thought! We have a wiki in our department, but this is not being used for standards(at least as far as I know!), so this may be a good place to start. I'll take on board what you've said and think about what the next step is. You mentioned a cultural shift, there are several things here that need to be shifted culturally here (IMO) and the above is just one of those.. there are loads of other things also need to be looked at, but I won't moan about those! Cheers,
Billy. MCPD Windows Developer "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Scott Dorman wrote: Code standards/style is one of those spaces I actually like to play in and have established them at several of the companies I've worked for.
I'm currently working for a company where coding standards are talked about but there has been no agreement on a definitive guideline. The result of this being that each person has their own way of doing things, leading to the problem that the code can be difficult to understand and maintain. It also appears that theres resistance to any move to try to standardise, the reason being that the people involved have their own opinions so we get nowhere further with the discussion. Another excuse given is theres "no time" to sort things like this out. The Question I've got for you is this; when you have implemented such standards in existing development teams, what kind of hurdles have you encountered? and how did you manage to overcome them? I'd like to see if theres an approach that could be taken to get a bunch of developers (and their managers) who are set in their own ways to agree the standard and stick to them (not that I'm in a position currently to push for this, but who knows!) Also, reaching an consensus on the standard vs someone taking responsiblity of the standards, which of these might be a better approach? Any thoughts from anyone on this are appreciated.
Billy. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
"snaaake! snaaake! oooh its a snake!" (sic)
Billy. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Fanfare! [edit] i'm usually rubbish at these things! [/edit]
Billy. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
modified on Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:37 AM
:-D
Billy. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Richard Green wrote:
Thats not a brummie accent - I think you were thinking of the black country accent there
well spotted! Typically if you're from outside of the west midlands area, people can't tell the difference, much to the mild annoyance of many of my fellow brummies who can...
Billy. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
ooright!! (whats rung with ouwer brummie accent?) ;P
Billy. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
Generally at the moment its get in to work about 9:00-9:30, and productivity doesn't start going up till mid morning when the cuppa kicks in. The early time is spent on boring tasks which do not require thought, and also spent on CP and any reading of online articles and the like. from mid morning the productivity goes up steadily, and by about 4:30 i'm usually running at peak with the development work, and have been known to stick at a task till after most people have gone just to finish up tidily. I guess I don't like loose ends! In a previous job when I was working from home my peak productivity would be mid evening till around 10, much to the annoyance of the wife! I Guess its down to individuals and the environment you're working in...not as simple as you think. Note these rules are thrown out of the window on a friday! :laugh:
Billy. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous Part-time freelance developer for hire.
Hilarious! :laugh:
Billy. "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side, a dark side and it holds the universe together!" - Anonymous my holding page..more coming soon!
I've been in this situation, The company had expectations of delivering a full blown product that probably would have taken several months in a few weeks! but they did however pay up the bonuses + more. However, eventually I worked myself into the ground and I ended up leaving the job burnt out, after regularly working late into the night and full day weekends. This was despite the fact it was quite an interesting role. It can also ruin relationships with people outside of work, so be wary of that. in another job, I've had managers put the pressure on to put extra work in, with no guarantee of any reward. Needless to day i got wise to that. Also the expectation of doing 2 hours a day extra may still be unrealistic...especially as it gets closer to the delivery deadline. expect more pressure to be applied! But it works both ways... In my experience, either the job is exciting but the expectations for delivery are way too unrealistic with a risk-reward scenario, or you get a job where the environment isn't so demanding, but the work is as dull as dishwater! I've not come across an working environment thats got the balance right yet. its down to the person really to decide what suits, but that comes with experience. Hope this helps...
William Falconer, Developer
:)
William Falconer, Developer