i dont think its the ribbon effect that i am after., i just wanted to place the buttons in an easy to get to place., i cant rememer what its called but MS has a free small business accounting software that uses a similar design., I have looked at karls little app demo., and notice that all the open windows get added to the tab... i dont know if thats what i want to do... or should do for my app I have a main dashboard, that shows statistics for the individual., total reports written., type of reports written so on... and there are 4 other specific report types., for example., Company A., hires runners/field agents, who go out., do meter readings., electric, water., gas so on.. collect data on a handheld,. and when they get back., sync the data., then on the WPF app., or winforms app., the login get the dashboard., and can then select WATER ELECTRIC GAS SEWAGE... the screen is actually broken up into 2 columns., the left navi bar and the content pane., so when you click water., it loads the water control.. which right now is actually a control that consists of a listview, search buttons, a "summary" pane...., you click on a report thats in the list,. it refreshes the summary pane with preview data (couple of fields + labels), double clicking opens up a new form window that displays the entire report... you can then edit it (another form that has all the edit logic),. view/export to pdf... and so on... i dont mind showing my application., its not open source (yet)... what i want to do., is contine building my winforms application., and then start building the WPF part of it., then coming here onto the code projected and sharing all the stuff i have learnt.. the controls created and all the fun stuff so... if anyone who knows wpf (you? Karl?) wants to have a lookie... id be glad to share my executables... its a winforms app talking to a web service., which i will eventually convert to wpf + wcf., and see how i can host the wpf onto a web based app., cant remember the tech term form that wpf/e ? too late to try and remember., so if anyone is interested in helping, who has real life business app dev knowledge using wpf., let me know :) im open to suggestions.,

ran into something interesting... http://blogs.msdn.com/tims/archive/2007/06/13/wpf-hands-on-lab-build-an-outlook-2007-ui-clone.aspx[^]

thanks for your quick reply 1996 - 1999 and creeping into 2001 i was a graphic / flash person... then i jumped into the programming world., i am a jack of all trades., i can do both., and have been... the main meat of my product is a .net CF app that collects data., ditching the boring winform look, i used opennetcf to create a pretty application... while wpf looks really good, and it might make it easier for me to close the deal on the product when shown., i might have to go with winforms so that the product is complete... p.s. thank you for the ref to podder

Hello Karl, if your info is up-to-date, and your employer is empgovpower you might be the best person to answer my q's... Our company, creates software for law enforcement agencies... one of our major clients, has a deployment where its web based with ASP.... and an oracle back... .. .. you can imagine the nightmare... our system pretty much gets rid of the "paper" based processes and docs and makes them electronic. so the review-approve process exists,... a lot of the fancy stuff you can do with applications., doesnt apply to law enforcement agencies as the purpose is pretty specific., however., UI exp can be ofcourse improved.. which is why i have this question for you... you are actively moving old apps into WPF., i WAS going to redesign the asp web app into a Web service + winforms app., since most local/state agencies have a disconnect with their IT., its easier to give the client an updated thinapp/winform, than have it deployed to the web farms.. i do plan on eventually creating a web based portal... but for now., i have a couple of weeks in which i need to create an application that displays the data that has been colllected + entered., request changes., approve changes., supplement reports., and so on.... as you can see., the greater concern is making sure data is good., and things are entered correctly since many of the documetns are legal documents... So the main issue is i have no time., ive been with .net since its alpha stages., and i know my stuff., i dont know if i have time to play with wpf and make mistakes... what do you think i should do? Wpf now? or winform now, WPF later....

and i replied back to your AOL email address. aol sucks... it probably at my email address.... check your bulk / spam... let me know if you find it. (or not)

the pdfs i create are dynamic from a .net app, i use abcpdf from websupergoo who have methods to write out the objects, so i had to read it to ., to specify what actually got "written out" in the end, it majically worked., i wld never clean up the code i had to write, or even visit it again, thats how messy it got

i also think you read i wrong...or are taking it too seriously what they are saying... for example., if you open up a PDF in notepad, you will see how "objects" are implemented, there is a certian, lets say "code" for each object., like 14 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /Type1 /BaseFont /AGaramond−Semibold /FirstChar 0 /LastChar 255 /Widths 21 0 R /FontDescriptor 7 0 R /Encoding 25 0 R >> endobj what they do not want., is another company (i ofcourse am not implying that MS would so something liek this) to create., lets say a XPDF., and uses the same "code" for its objects., i.e. j++ and java

which technologies do u play with?

i spent about 40 hours reading that doc when i had to embed sound + images into a pdf on the fly and i was thinking why wld anyone in their right mind read this stuff.... or have time to read it... looks like i found someone...

the hardware..... im pretty sure that the OS isnt capable of, thru molecular viberations speaking to.... the lets say network card that is in the same box.,... the network card is pluged into the motherboard the harddrive is plugged into the motherboard. the process is pugged into the motherboard.... if your BIOS, i.e. motherboard spoke french, but your network card and OS spoke english, there wldnt be much talking... unless ur os was going to somehow as i said earlier., thru molecular viberations, get its message across.... they dont have vocal cords.... :)

This will help you out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS[^] BIOS stands for Basic Input/Output System, so while it is not "running" it does provide the IO bases... without your basic IO, you wont have much IO going on,....

if access 2.0 was a person id be in jail

yes, the legallity does cause an interesting problem, it does however stop. recreating a patented or copyrighted product with improved functionality is legal, as long as the design and development of the system is created from new requirements.i.e. not reverse engineerd. switching production environments only helps the legality of the development. take microsoft for example ;) in other words, the legal development domain of the current product falls under access 2.0, if i respec, design and develop a Win form application, i have a totally seperate and new product. my masters was in software engineering, we spent a whole semester on ethics, patents, copyrights and so on., though it was a waste of time, it did expose laws of the digital age. But yes, a lawyer wouldnt hurt. some employers make you sign a "no conflict of interest" statement, which ensures them that for the next x years you will not develop or take part in development of anything you learn, create at their work place..... ours has no such clause.

hmm, well im their technical lead. lets say they "made" money, im stuck supporting and maintaining their crappyness. customers are no longer happy, maybe i didnt emphasis "niche" enough, we are the ONLY providers of the software, so they are more like... forced to use it, if another company showed up tomorrow with software that had a better GUI, all our 200+ clients would switch to them. the current software sells for $300,000.00 (per installation) with unlimited licenses..... if they wld at least create maintenanace contracts that is potentially 200 x $4000 per ?YEAR., = $800,000.00 but they dont even do that......

I work for a company that has shitty products and shitty practices who refuse to change from their Access 2.0 applications into winforms and will not spend time developing, or redeveloping code correctly. as i said, its a niche market, the clients are there, the needs are obvious, would you want to work on a access 2.0 application in windows vista? :) come to think of it., it will probably work in vista 32... access 2.0 = 8 bit.. :) i have done projects that were evaluated, developers world = we know what takes 4 weeks, and what takes 4 months to develope non-technical = " is it done yet"...

Sourceforge and codeplex are opensource and the end product is mostly free., correct?

Hi there, ive run into a problem, i have a couple of projects that i think can make money, these are niche projects, so they have a very specific market. the problem is that it will take more than just me to develop everything, i have 10+ years of programming knowledge and im looking for partners who have "expert" knowledge in VB.NET ASP.NET, MS web services, XML, and possible MS SQL, dont care much abt the sql... i am in US, CALI, OC., these are NO INCOME PROJECTS, means, if it makes money, we split profit otherwise it goes down the drain, i am not sure where i can go look for such programmers who want to colloborate on projects, i dont mind working with someone elses ideas as well.... any clue if there is a website that provides such info??