What would you say if.... [modified]
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I can tell you when, where, how, who was involved, the language, the first project, and how the results went.
Ditto, although I'm still trying to keep the fact I started with QBasic under wraps. :laugh:
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
It is meant only as a quick introduction to OGL, not as how to program in any of the languages he or his readers have translated to the code into.
I totally agree, but I don't think that's how Super-Duper Lloyd was looking at it.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I totally agree, but I don't think that's how Super-Duper Lloyd was looking at it.
It is always easy to assume intent... It is always better to ask. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I totally agree, but I don't think that's how Super-Duper Lloyd was looking at it.
It is always easy to assume intent... It is always better to ask. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
It is always better to ask.
Where's the fun in that? :->
Jeremy Falcon
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Super Lloyd wrote:
Now, I just say it is simpler. I though that even C++ developer agree about that.
A screwdriver is simplier than a wrench, but they do not do the same job. Always choosing only the simpliest way leads you only to demanding that VB be ressurected because you don't want to have to "learn" anything.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
:confused: I think there is a communication problem here... Let's assume it's me and because this is not really important I will just stop this deaf-mute dialog and go back to my normal activities...
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Super Lloyd wrote:
Now I'm sure the kid would want to learn C++... after a few months But I believe the sooner (s)he has a flying soccer on the screen the happyer he would be.
I think at this point the argument is moot until we find the age of this kid.... If we are talking pre-teen, I am backing the guy who said "don't follow in your dad's footsteps" if only because he is probably choosing the only thing he knows rather than really choosing what he wants.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
If we are talking pre-teen, I am backing the guy who said "don't follow in your dad's footsteps" if only because he is probably choosing the only thing he knows rather than really choosing what he wants.
Yeah, agree with this. Besides, I gotta get back to my studies (still working on the library). I have a name now btw, I'm calling it Medio (pronounced similar to Media, but a long "O" sound at the end instead) - short for My Engine Designed In OpenGL. I may find a word that starts with M to replace "My" though.
Jeremy Falcon
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Albert Einstein. wrote:
So I changed my mind about No 1. Kids need to learn concepts of developement and it still be fun. They need to see results as well. Perhaps LEGO mindstorm would be a good idea.
How "young" is this kid?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
This would be for an 8-10 year old.
E=mc2 -> BOOM
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This would be for an 8-10 year old.
E=mc2 -> BOOM
Albert Einstein. wrote:
This would be for an 8-10 year old.
Encourage him to find his own way, if he wants to program there is google, help him find what he wants. But at that age he should be trying to find his own path, not just following yours. Programming may be his path in life, if so, good for him, but this is the time to keep an open mind, find what he is good at, and interested in, in a variety of subjects... he may find he likes something else, that is good for him too. What HE wants is more important than what you, or we, want to show him.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Super Lloyd wrote:
I am sorry but I start programing when I was 12, with I can't remember the language now.
You don't remember the first language you learned to program with? :wtf:
Super Lloyd wrote:
Why do you think it's difficult? too much C perhaps?
I never said it was difficult, that's been your whole argument since the get-go.
Super Lloyd wrote:
Because my main point was: "trying to suggest tips for quick (e.g. easy) and fun (e.g. visual) programing" (so (s)he will like it and continue).
You assume they'll enjoy GUI development. What if they don't? Also, that wasn't your point. You suggested not using C/C++ because it's tough. BTW, there's not much RAD/"Visual Programming" involved with game development. My suggestion is you learn how to use the language, before you learn how to use the language for Window's programming, etc.
Super Lloyd wrote:
And I have the feeling you are trying to transform this discussion into a discussion of merits between various language from a programmer point of view.
I have a feeling you don't really want to become a good programmer yourself.
Super Lloyd wrote:
Just so you know, I found Jeffry J. Brickley remarks about NeHe much more in relation with the kind of thing I had in mind (although as C++ oriented).
I've been through the NeHe site a LOT. I can say his tutorials have bug after bug in them. He even prefaces his articles by saying he's not a great programmer (probably someone like you who doesn't care about the "boring stuff"). The result is lousy code. The point is, that's a lousy site for someone to learn the proper ways to program with. Studying OGL AFTER they know how to program is one thing, not when you're new to all of it. Lastly, none of this has to do with your orignal point - which is C/C++ is too "tough" to start with.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Super Lloyd wrote: I am sorry but I start programing when I was 12, with I can't remember the language now. You don't remember the first language you learned to program with?
My dad threw all my stuff away a few times.. :sigh: So I started programing at ... perhaps it was ... I am not sure... But I stopped programing between ~14 to ~20. And that was a language specific to a dead french computer named TO7.
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Albert Einstein. wrote:
What would you tell them they should learn?
Hindi or Mandarin
:omg: That is :laugh:
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Well that's my experience with C++ between 1998 to 2002. I bought a few C++ book, I read them. Very long and arduous for little result except for "amazingly efficient collection using multi-heritance" right after page 345. BTW, is there a book on STL? I had to learn tidbit from the net.... Then cames .NET (and Java). Start from nothing, learn the syntax in 50 pages, build a nice, multithreaded, GUI application in the next 100 pages.... (all in just under 21 days, of course ;P)
Super Lloyd wrote:
BTW, is there a book on STL?
You're kidding, right? Is it really that hard to Google or Yahoo "STL book"?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Super Lloyd wrote:
BTW, is there a book on STL?
You're kidding, right? Is it really that hard to Google or Yahoo "STL book"?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Not really ... But there is a simple explanation: I don't program in C++! ;) Only now sometimes I write some managed C++ and sometimes I would like to have some information about STL... Now there is another problem, I like to peruse the book in the library before buying it, but due to some health issue I don't go into towns (or even villages) any more... So I'm kind of stuck... I know I could order a random one about it on Amazon but, as I said, I seldom need it, if at all!
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Super Lloyd wrote:
BTW, is there a book on STL?
You're kidding, right? Is it really that hard to Google or Yahoo "STL book"?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Oops... Again... I probably misunderstood you.... At the time I was learning C++ on my own (between 1998-2000) I didn't know about STL. I learn about it later, but had not need for it! (not programing in C++) Well, yeah,I guessed I was sort of kidding! ;P
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Yeah, and Jolt cola is still the cool, happy hacker drink.
Jolt candy bars, Jolt gum... Jolt soap... I am waiting for Jolt hand-lotion and Jolt keyboards.... ;P
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I am waiting for Jolt hand-lotion and Jolt keyboards...
You know, if they combined the two you'd never have to moisturize...
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I am waiting for Jolt hand-lotion and Jolt keyboards...
You know, if they combined the two you'd never have to moisturize...
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Shog9 wrote:
You know, if they combined the two you'd never have to moisturize...
and you would never want to leave the computer....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Super Lloyd wrote: I am sorry but I start programing when I was 12, with I can't remember the language now. You don't remember the first language you learned to program with?
My dad threw all my stuff away a few times.. :sigh: So I started programing at ... perhaps it was ... I am not sure... But I stopped programing between ~14 to ~20. And that was a language specific to a dead french computer named TO7.
Super Lloyd wrote:
And that was a language specific to a dead french computer named TO7.
and my first was on the dead TRS-80 Model I. Everyone starts somewhere. Someone, once upon a time, started on Eniac.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Super Lloyd wrote:
And that was a language specific to a dead french computer named TO7.
and my first was on the dead TRS-80 Model I. Everyone starts somewhere. Someone, once upon a time, started on Eniac.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Albert Einstein. wrote:
This would be for an 8-10 year old.
Encourage him to find his own way, if he wants to program there is google, help him find what he wants. But at that age he should be trying to find his own path, not just following yours. Programming may be his path in life, if so, good for him, but this is the time to keep an open mind, find what he is good at, and interested in, in a variety of subjects... he may find he likes something else, that is good for him too. What HE wants is more important than what you, or we, want to show him.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Yeah that's very percise explanation. If you think he's on to programming then it's very fine. I suggest that even in his young age, you will treat him as adult ones. I think everyone likes it when they are treated with full confidence by their parents. Programming languages to start with? "x86 Assembly". This would be possible with the aid of you (parent). At his young age, let him experience the greatest of difficulties coz if he is ought to be a programmer then he will show signs of interest even on the toughest situations.... that would include exposing him/her to PC Architecture. :~ After he/she learn how to do some arithmetic stuff or display something, after a few years, "encourage" him in learning C/C++.... he will be glad on it...(i've experienced it too)......:rolleyes: With that firm foundation, "encourage" him to do Win32 applications... X| With that toughest training... if he has the blood of a programmer then he will be able to surpass that...... ;) And all the translated language will be a piece of bacon....:laugh:
"We are all the same in different ways" Kuroro Rucilful
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... your kid told you they wanted to become a developer. What would you tell them they should learn? 1) C++. I'm started with vb 3 and have moved to c# and vb.net but I have always wished I learned a lower level language. I did a bunch of ANSI C on a unix system in school but that is the last place I've seen it. I think you are more competitive though in the market place if you know c++ simply because you can do more then take data out of a database and put it back in (probably the majority of projects .net is used for although I'm sure some people will list out some notable exceptions). 2) Patience. If you don't like to spend 8 hours a day trying to figure something out, your in the wrong business. -- modified at 20:00 Sunday 6th August, 2006
E=mc2 -> BOOM
Formula 1 - Short for "F1 Racing" - named after the standard "help" key in Windows, it's a sport where participants desperately search through software help files trying to find actual documentation. It's tedious and somewhat cruel, most matches ending in a draw as no participant is able to find anything helpful. - Shog9 Ed
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... your kid told you they wanted to become a developer. What would you tell them they should learn? 1) C++. I'm started with vb 3 and have moved to c# and vb.net but I have always wished I learned a lower level language. I did a bunch of ANSI C on a unix system in school but that is the last place I've seen it. I think you are more competitive though in the market place if you know c++ simply because you can do more then take data out of a database and put it back in (probably the majority of projects .net is used for although I'm sure some people will list out some notable exceptions). 2) Patience. If you don't like to spend 8 hours a day trying to figure something out, your in the wrong business. -- modified at 20:00 Sunday 6th August, 2006
E=mc2 -> BOOM
My youngest son (age 20) decided to become a developer after spending several years doing web development (Java, PHP, MySQL) and is enrolling in a software engineering program here in Stockholm after testing the water by taking a course in C programming. It's a good program, and I think he's making a good choice. My advice to him? 1. Learn C/C++/C#, not just Java for the same reasons as others have cited (lower-level language, commercial viability, etc.) 2. Patience for sure and probably a hard head for the times when you want to start banging your head against the wall becuase you can't find that bug. 3. Don't reinvent the wheel. Over the past few months, my son and I have had a lengthy e-mail exchange in which I have tried to show him how C evolved into C++ and C#, how structured programming became object-oriented programming and how dynamic instead of static typing changed the rules. I've basically told him to use what's out there and to leverage the power of today's platforms which are the work of many extremely gifted programmers who have gone before. 4. Have fun! Maybe that's the most important point, because if you don't like what you're doing and think that you're creating something cool, banging your head against the wall is going to hurt. Speaking of having fun, in one of his first courses he will be programming a Lego Mindstorm robot. My suggestion for a suitable exercise was to program it to get him a coke when he's thirsty. Alan S P.S. Please stop the language bashing. It really is boring.
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... your kid told you they wanted to become a developer. What would you tell them they should learn? 1) C++. I'm started with vb 3 and have moved to c# and vb.net but I have always wished I learned a lower level language. I did a bunch of ANSI C on a unix system in school but that is the last place I've seen it. I think you are more competitive though in the market place if you know c++ simply because you can do more then take data out of a database and put it back in (probably the majority of projects .net is used for although I'm sure some people will list out some notable exceptions). 2) Patience. If you don't like to spend 8 hours a day trying to figure something out, your in the wrong business. -- modified at 20:00 Sunday 6th August, 2006
E=mc2 -> BOOM
Albert Einstein. wrote:
What would you tell them they should learn?
Somthing else! Ahem, I mean, *as well* as programming. Because (1) a lot of IT people provide services to another industry, and it doesn't hurt to know a little about the your user's day job, (2) because kids often change their minds about what they want and (3) becuase it is often useful to have something else to fall back on.
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... your kid told you they wanted to become a developer. What would you tell them they should learn? 1) C++. I'm started with vb 3 and have moved to c# and vb.net but I have always wished I learned a lower level language. I did a bunch of ANSI C on a unix system in school but that is the last place I've seen it. I think you are more competitive though in the market place if you know c++ simply because you can do more then take data out of a database and put it back in (probably the majority of projects .net is used for although I'm sure some people will list out some notable exceptions). 2) Patience. If you don't like to spend 8 hours a day trying to figure something out, your in the wrong business. -- modified at 20:00 Sunday 6th August, 2006
E=mc2 -> BOOM