Living in Canada
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thealj wrote:
The probability of receiving hostile treatment for being and English speaker (even though I speak French) is much lower as well.
I was told that French people are more tolerant towards non-white folks who can't speak French. Surely they wouldn't expect 2 Indians from the south of India to know French!
thealj wrote:
HOWEVER, if you prefer historic things, then Quebec is the place to go. The "old city" is quite nice to explore and there are many more historical sites.
Ah, then it looks like I'd prefer Quebec. It'd be interesting to see if both cities can be forced into a 3 day weekend (considering I am located in Toronto).
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I was told that French people are more tolerant towards non-white folks who can't speak French. Surely they wouldn't expect 2 Indians from the south of India to know French!
You could be right! Can't really say because I'm an English speaking white guy! :-D
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Ah, then it looks like I'd prefer Quebec. It'd be interesting to see if both cities can be forced into a 3 day weekend (considering I am located in Toronto).
This could be difficult. I think you would spend the first and last day travelling, in which case you would really have one day to see both cities. In my opinion, you would need at least 2 days to see Montreal and 2 days to sufficiently see Quebec. However, you could probably do 1 city in a day depending on your itinerary. If you like history, etc.. then I suggest Quebec city to you.
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thealj wrote:
Naw, that would be Montreal.
Never heard anyone say that before. Between Montreal and Quebec city, which'd be a better place to visit?
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Depends. For old buildings (by north american standards), historical sites, a European feel, go for Quebec city. It's the oldest fortified city in north america. For the city experience, activities, cultural events, go to Montreal. It is an awesome city.
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Montreal hands down. I was thrown out of a place in Quebec city for speaking English some years ago! Ah, the good ole days... I prefer Montreal because it is more cosmopolitan, the restaruants are much, much better and there are more things to see and do (*exception, see below). The probability of receiving hostile treatment for being and English speaker (even though I speak French) is much lower as well. I just preferred Montreal - more jazz clubs, better food, nice places to walk...beautiful city. Almost moved there but ended up in Switzerland instead. Long story... HOWEVER, if you prefer historic things, then Quebec is the place to go. The "old city" is quite nice to explore and there are many more historical sites.
Things might have changed a lot since, they made efforts to increase tourism. I'm french speaking and visited Quebec city last summer. We were first greeted in English in most restaurants and English was heard everywhere.
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Håkan Nilsson wrote:
English as 1:st language,
I think you'll also need a certain level of French to get into Canada for an extended period.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
OK, OK, I stand corrected! :-O
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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Canadians out there and the rest of you who knews a lot of Canada, help me! I'm thinking about taking two or three years abroad with my family - wife and three children. Main reasons are: the children will learn proper english and we want to see something more than sweden for a longer time. We have just been traveling in Europe on our vacations, we have never been in the States or Canada, but I think Canada could be just fine. We live in Örebro, Sweden and if you look on the map and follow the latitude you will find yourself in southern Alaska, but we got about 20-30 degrees summertime and minus 5-25 wintertime. Now to the questions: 1) Which town should we head for? Criterias: English as 1:st language, there are soccer teams for my sons to play in (8, 13 years old). Some of us like hot temperatures at summertime and cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime. We like skiing both downhill and cross country (ok, I like both, rest if the family just downhill :)) There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees). We want to travel mostly by bike to school or work. Oh, what a list of demands! :-D 2) Working? How is the market for DBA:s / SQL Server programmers? My wife is occupational therapist, but maybee she could do something different just for fun halftime or so. 3) Get paid? What about the wages for senior developers/DBA:s 4) Administration, papers, permissions, formalia and... and so on. What do we need Anyone? All comments are welcome!
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
Ottawa would meet all your criteria except maybe skiing. It is really fantastic for cross-country skiing, but for downhill, even though there are stations, I'm sure they'd be considered sub-par by Europeans standards. For bigger mountains, you'd have to drive a few hours.
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Denevers wrote:
In my opinion, Quebec City is the most beautiful city, for it's old europe style
Curious, I always thought Montreal was more European (and beautiful) than Quebec city. Although I did have some bad experiences in Quebec city that colour my opinion of it.
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Ottawa would meet all your criteria except maybe skiing. It is really fantastic for cross-country skiing, but for downhill, even though there are stations, I'm sure they'd be considered sub-par by Europeans standards. For bigger mountains, you'd have to drive a few hours.
OK, I add Ottawa to the wish list as well. I have a lot of things to check up before we go to Canada next summer. Thanks!
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
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Håkan Nilsson wrote:
English as 1:st language,
I think you'll also need a certain level of French to get into Canada for an extended period.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
It's not necessary, but it can help your immigration score if you're borderline. [Unless you plan on moving to Quebec] -- modified at 9:39 Tuesday 22nd August, 2006
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
FIX: A MFC program created in Visual Studio .NET 2003 unexpectedly quits when you try to close it[^]
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Canadians out there and the rest of you who knews a lot of Canada, help me! I'm thinking about taking two or three years abroad with my family - wife and three children. Main reasons are: the children will learn proper english and we want to see something more than sweden for a longer time. We have just been traveling in Europe on our vacations, we have never been in the States or Canada, but I think Canada could be just fine. We live in Örebro, Sweden and if you look on the map and follow the latitude you will find yourself in southern Alaska, but we got about 20-30 degrees summertime and minus 5-25 wintertime. Now to the questions: 1) Which town should we head for? Criterias: English as 1:st language, there are soccer teams for my sons to play in (8, 13 years old). Some of us like hot temperatures at summertime and cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime. We like skiing both downhill and cross country (ok, I like both, rest if the family just downhill :)) There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees). We want to travel mostly by bike to school or work. Oh, what a list of demands! :-D 2) Working? How is the market for DBA:s / SQL Server programmers? My wife is occupational therapist, but maybee she could do something different just for fun halftime or so. 3) Get paid? What about the wages for senior developers/DBA:s 4) Administration, papers, permissions, formalia and... and so on. What do we need Anyone? All comments are welcome!
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
Håkan Nilsson wrote:
cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime.
That limits your choices dramatically. Everything from the Rocky Mountains in the west all the way to the east coast will get well below -10C in Winter. Even Toronto can have long stretches without it getting above -10. Also, if you want sunny winters then ask around because some places (I'm looking at you, Toronto) can be grey and gloomy in Winter. Further North (such as North Bay) get those stunning crystal clear winters but they are crazy cold. In BC the weather is far milder but Vancouver is very rainy for many months. >There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees Just move to Australia :-D
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
FIX: A MFC program created in Visual Studio .NET 2003 unexpectedly quits when you try to close it[^]
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Stay away from Calgary. They have massive swings in weather. Can go from -20C one day to +12 the next. I don't recommend it. If you like the seasonal weather, etc... then I would suggest Toronto or just outside of Toronto in one of the suburbs so you avoid the hassle of life in the big city but can benefit from being close to it. Furthermore, there is decent skiing north of Toronto as well as abundant nature and lakes, outdoor activities, mountain biking, etc... no more than 2 hours away. You also have the benefit of multiculturalism. I've been living outside of Canada for about 3 years now, so I don't know if there are any new immigration rules, but at one time they were placing immigrants in cities that needed them the most, so I am not sure if you are entirely free to pick and choose where you want to live...I may be wrong, so it is best to check with customs and immigration Canada.
OK, I now got Vancouver, Toronta and Ottawa in my "look for list". The thing that could be a problem is that myfamily life right now is so easy. 10 mins bike to work, living in a villa in a city center (Örebro, Sweden) a lot of activities for my family. The easist thing is to stay at home, but that's right it's too easy! I knew that Canada is not another Sovjet state so I'm sure I can somehow select my own living! I'm just surprised that I will be called immigrant in Canada. We don't call folks from north-america immigrants in Sweden. Immigrants in Sweden are people from Afghanistan or Bosnia, north-americans are settlers. It's a "north-south-east-west-cultural-thing" in sweden.
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
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Don't worry about it. The main requirement to be bi-lingual is if you want to work in the government, especially the federal government, where you need both languages to progress past a certain level. My experience (as a Brit who worked in Canada for a while) is that you'll do just fine, so long as you don't try to work in Quebec (somebody else also mentioned New Brunswick but I have no knowledge of that state). I worked in Ottawa, the Capital, which has a high proportion of French speakers, but still got along without problems. My experience is that the further West you go, the less French is used. Soccer is huge in Canadian schools, go practically anywhere and your sons will find teams to play in. Winters a very cold (to us Brits) and summers hot. The coasts are more moderate (i.e. lower summer temperatures and higher winter temperatures). Anywhere in land you'll get snow in the Winter. Cross country skiing is popular almost everywhere in Canada, downhill is very popular in Rockies (Calgary was mentioned and that is in easy reach of the Rockies). I know that there is also some slopes in Quebec that the skiers from Ottawa go to a lot. Don't know about the rest of the country. Natural bathing could be awkward. For most Canadians, bathing means lakes (there are a lot of them in Canada), occasionally rivers. These are cold in the mornings or if they are deep. I assume that you mean in summer, because in winter they will be very cold, if not frozen. The Rideau canel in Ottawa becomes a skating rink in the winter. Hope this helps
Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue
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Håkan Nilsson wrote:
cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime.
That limits your choices dramatically. Everything from the Rocky Mountains in the west all the way to the east coast will get well below -10C in Winter. Even Toronto can have long stretches without it getting above -10. Also, if you want sunny winters then ask around because some places (I'm looking at you, Toronto) can be grey and gloomy in Winter. Further North (such as North Bay) get those stunning crystal clear winters but they are crazy cold. In BC the weather is far milder but Vancouver is very rainy for many months. >There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees Just move to Australia :-D
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
FIX: A MFC program created in Visual Studio .NET 2003 unexpectedly quits when you try to close it[^]
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> What's going on in Calgary? oil. No provincial sales tax in Calgary, they even mail checks back because they have surpluses. but expect to spend a lot of $ on housing. for IT in Canada, the city where there is more demand are Toronto, Montreal and Calgary. In my opinion, Quebec City is the most beautiful city, for it's old europe style, but it does not impress european as much as north american for obvious reason. does not meet your first criteria either (french first). And not as hot as rest of Canada. > Except hockey of course! oh -- you really had to bring this up haven't you ?. congrat for the gold medal anyway. -- modified at 9:00 Tuesday 22nd August, 2006
Denevers
You are right, it's quite difficult to impress europeans with north-american architecture. I mostlu like buildings shorter than 30 meters... I've been playing youth hockey (and bandy too if you knew what it is, 11-player on ice with short sticks and a small red ball) and my son has just finished his winter sport career. So it's just an extra plus if there is something more to do in a canadian town than thinking hockey. Thanks, I'm not sure I deserve the gold medal, I don't knew what I've done!
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
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Canadians out there and the rest of you who knews a lot of Canada, help me! I'm thinking about taking two or three years abroad with my family - wife and three children. Main reasons are: the children will learn proper english and we want to see something more than sweden for a longer time. We have just been traveling in Europe on our vacations, we have never been in the States or Canada, but I think Canada could be just fine. We live in Örebro, Sweden and if you look on the map and follow the latitude you will find yourself in southern Alaska, but we got about 20-30 degrees summertime and minus 5-25 wintertime. Now to the questions: 1) Which town should we head for? Criterias: English as 1:st language, there are soccer teams for my sons to play in (8, 13 years old). Some of us like hot temperatures at summertime and cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime. We like skiing both downhill and cross country (ok, I like both, rest if the family just downhill :)) There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees). We want to travel mostly by bike to school or work. Oh, what a list of demands! :-D 2) Working? How is the market for DBA:s / SQL Server programmers? My wife is occupational therapist, but maybee she could do something different just for fun halftime or so. 3) Get paid? What about the wages for senior developers/DBA:s 4) Administration, papers, permissions, formalia and... and so on. What do we need Anyone? All comments are welcome!
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
Proper English = United States. From what I have read in numerous locations. US English is closer to 1700 English than british English. Plus our spellings are better. Go to Quebec! The are seperatist, warm, and caring, other than the fact they speak French you'll be fine.
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
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Håkan Nilsson wrote:
cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime.
That limits your choices dramatically. Everything from the Rocky Mountains in the west all the way to the east coast will get well below -10C in Winter. Even Toronto can have long stretches without it getting above -10. Also, if you want sunny winters then ask around because some places (I'm looking at you, Toronto) can be grey and gloomy in Winter. Further North (such as North Bay) get those stunning crystal clear winters but they are crazy cold. In BC the weather is far milder but Vancouver is very rainy for many months. >There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees Just move to Australia :-D
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
FIX: A MFC program created in Visual Studio .NET 2003 unexpectedly quits when you try to close it[^]
Hmmm, there was a writing error! I mean < -10 and sunny, best is -5 to -20 lots of sun and low humidity. You now understand why I'm not writin those tricky C programs anymore, I'm getting old I thought about that, but my wife turned it down when I mentioned it. I don't know why, maybee she's afraid of sharks or aboriginals or something. I pick it up again!
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
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OK, I now got Vancouver, Toronta and Ottawa in my "look for list". The thing that could be a problem is that myfamily life right now is so easy. 10 mins bike to work, living in a villa in a city center (Örebro, Sweden) a lot of activities for my family. The easist thing is to stay at home, but that's right it's too easy! I knew that Canada is not another Sovjet state so I'm sure I can somehow select my own living! I'm just surprised that I will be called immigrant in Canada. We don't call folks from north-america immigrants in Sweden. Immigrants in Sweden are people from Afghanistan or Bosnia, north-americans are settlers. It's a "north-south-east-west-cultural-thing" in sweden.
/Håkan Nilsson ------------------------------------------------ - Old fashion C programmer since 1988 - Bachelor in systems analysis 1991 - Systems developer at work with C#, SQL Server... - DBA, database design, SQL, admin ------------------------------------------------
I would suggest either Vancouver or Toronto then. Toronto is nice because it is central, but Vancouver has warmer weather, although it can get rainy. I think the choice ultimately comes down to personal opinion. :)
Håkan Nilsson wrote:
I knew that Canada is not another Sovjet state so I'm sure I can somehow select my own living! I'm just surprised that I will be called immigrant in Canada. We don't call folks from north-america immigrants in Sweden. Immigrants in Sweden are people from Afghanistan or Bosnia, north-americans are settlers. It's a "north-south-east-west-cultural-thing" in sweden.
Immigrant in this case is not an insulting term, it is just the only term used. If you are planning on moving to Canada to obtain citizenship, then you are considered an immigrant. If you are moving there to just work and live I guess you would be called an expatriate or temporary worker or something... It's just a term the government uses.. Also, you are probably okay to choose where you live. I looked into it and it is mostly teachers and doctors that they relocate due to oversupply and underdemand in some regions. Don't think it will be a problem for you.
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Did you wear a Montreal Canadian jersey ? , or worst, a Denver Avalanche one ? :-> While both cities have a 'old city' sector, Quebec is much more developped. But it's all pa matter of taste (I lived in both cities)
Denevers
Denevers wrote:
Did you wear a Montreal Canadian jersey ? , or worst, a Denver Avalanche one ?
Heh. No. I speak French but with an English accent. He asked me if I was originally from English Canada. I said yes. It went all downhill from there. Just one bad apple in the bunch.... I did live in Montreal for awhile and fell in love with it. Loved it, loved it, loved it. Would go back in an instant. Great city.
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Proper English = United States. From what I have read in numerous locations. US English is closer to 1700 English than british English. Plus our spellings are better. Go to Quebec! The are seperatist, warm, and caring, other than the fact they speak French you'll be fine.
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
US English is closer to 1700 English
Thats a pretty wide definition of close. The fact we can communicate in almost exactly the same language means we are pretty far from 17thcentury English. If not it would look like: '... So homeward, in my way buying a hare and taking it home - which arose upon my discourse today with Mr Batten in Westminster-hall - who showed me my mistake, that my hares-foot hath not the joint to it, and assures me he never had his colique since he carried it about him. And it is a strange thing how fancy works, for I no sooner almost handled his foot but my belly begin to loose and to break wind; ' From S Pepys diaries. 1665
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Håkan Nilsson wrote:
cold sunny > -10 degrees wintertime.
That limits your choices dramatically. Everything from the Rocky Mountains in the west all the way to the east coast will get well below -10C in Winter. Even Toronto can have long stretches without it getting above -10. Also, if you want sunny winters then ask around because some places (I'm looking at you, Toronto) can be grey and gloomy in Winter. Further North (such as North Bay) get those stunning crystal clear winters but they are crazy cold. In BC the weather is far milder but Vancouver is very rainy for many months. >There must be good natural bathing with warm water > 18 degrees Just move to Australia :-D
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
FIX: A MFC program created in Visual Studio .NET 2003 unexpectedly quits when you try to close it[^]
Chris Maunder wrote:
Further North (such as North Bay) get those stunning crystal clear winters but they are crazy cold.
North Bay... X| I lived in Sudbury for 7 years (40 mins from North Bay by car). Worst 7 years of my life. Awful, awful, awful place. No culture, no happiness, no nothing except a big bloody nickel and a giant (suspiciously shaped) smokestack. When the wind blew the "right way" everything stunk of sulphur. Terrible hideous place of no value at all. Winters consistently -20C at the end of December and averaging -25C through January to March (with dips as low as -42C). I don't know how I survived that long in that place. Gah. North Bay is no better, it's even smaller and there's absolutely nothing there except some car dealerships, a few small boat marinas, a basically unoccupied military base and a black bear with a penchant for McDonald's grease bins. Also, the water is full of rotting leaves which stains everything brown with tannins. There was a huge effort to remove them (citing health reasons, specifically carcinogenicity when they are exposed to cloramines) and to clean up the water because it was terribly polluted and acidified from the nickel mine emissions - hence the crystal clearness. In North Bay, they dam Nippissing in the summer which drains the French River of needed water and makes things run stagnant and causes a great bloody algae smell... A terrible, terrible mess that desperately needs attention. In conclusion, don't live in North Bay.
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VAIO Blue wrote:
IMO, the best place in Canada is Vancouver.
Shucks - haven't been there. But everyone says it's the most beautiful city in Canada.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Vancouver is not just beautiful, it is spectacular!