So today was my big day
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I'm glad everyone in the US isn't like you. In fact I'm glad I have never actually met an American like you.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
In fact I'm glad I have never actually met an American like you.
I'm glad you haven't either. Fortunately, they are few.
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started the day as an alien, finish it as a US Citizen :cool::cool: Now to register to vote, update my record with Social Security and enjoy a celebratory dinner with my wife! :)
Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++ My blog http://blogs.wdevs.com/ultramaroon/[^] My blog mirror http://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
In fact I'm glad I have never actually met an American like you.
I'm glad you haven't either. Fortunately, they are few.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
ain't no aliens here in Arizona
Well there ain't none *now*! :)
Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++ My blog http://blogs.wdevs.com/ultramaroon/[^] My blog mirror http://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
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Rob Manderson wrote:
started the day as an alien, finish it as a US Citizen
What you talking 'bout? There ain't no aliens here in Arizona. :) Congratulations on becoming a citizen. It's wonderful to be part of one of the greatest nations on the planet. It's also nice to know you're planning to vote. Now we can blame you for our elected officials. :)
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started the day as an alien, finish it as a US Citizen :cool::cool: Now to register to vote, update my record with Social Security and enjoy a celebratory dinner with my wife! :)
Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++ My blog http://blogs.wdevs.com/ultramaroon/[^] My blog mirror http://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
Welcome, welcome, welcome.... truly meant from the heart. Welcome to "The Great Expirement"!
Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied. My son's PDA is an M249 SAW. My other son commutes in an M1A2 Abrams
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There is also a Hell in Norway.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
I guess Hell really could freeze over there. :-D
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1. Your comments express a political opinion about the quality of this country, one which is contentious, and certainly not held by many others. As such, it belongs in the Soapbox. 2. Introducing your remarks with an appology (" I mean no offense") clear shows you knew many might well take offense, but felt your words were too important to remain unsaid. 3. If not rude, at least quite inappropriate. Tantamount to calling Rob M. an idiot for actually choosing to become a citizen. 4. If you don't like things as they are, get out and do something about it. Don't just sit around and whine; doing so just makes you part of the problem, not of the solution.
Rob Graham wrote:
and certainly not held by many others.
Got something to back this up with? There is a lot of discussion going on now, especially given the events of the past few days, about what the US is doing and where it is headed, which suggests that there *are* a lot of people very concerned (and yes, ashamed) about what's happening.
Rob Graham wrote:
As such, it belongs in the Soapbox
Not at all. He said that there were things he was ashamed of and left it at that. If he had gone into details, then yes it would belong in the Soapbox but he didn't. He was simply providing some context for his question.
Rob Graham wrote:
Introducing your remarks with an appology (" I mean no offense") clear shows you knew many might well take offense
Or he knows that there are a lot of people who are hyper-sensitive when it comes to criticism of any sort :rolleyes:
Rob Graham wrote:
at least quite inappropriate
Possibly, but I think the question was a fair one and reasonably put. It may be hard for some people to understand but not everyone on the planet would give their left testicle to become a US citizen. He was simply asking Rob why he wanted to do so.
Rob Graham wrote:
Tantamount to calling Rob M. an idiot for actually choosing to become a citizen.
Not at all. It's not like he said "You fricking moron! WTF would you want to do such a thing?!" No, it was more along the lines of "given what my country is doing right now, can I ask why you would want to do this."
Rob Graham wrote:
If you don't like things as they are, get out and do something about it.
How do you know he's not?
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
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1. Your comments express a political opinion about the quality of this country, one which is contentious, and certainly not held by many others. As such, it belongs in the Soapbox. 2. Introducing your remarks with an appology (" I mean no offense") clear shows you knew many might well take offense, but felt your words were too important to remain unsaid. 3. If not rude, at least quite inappropriate. Tantamount to calling Rob M. an idiot for actually choosing to become a citizen. 4. If you don't like things as they are, get out and do something about it. Don't just sit around and whine; doing so just makes you part of the problem, not of the solution.
- No political views were mentioned, only my feeling of shame for this country's behavior. But when people have no valid position of argument against another's views they will call it political. 2) I was seeking to understand anothers viewpoint. 3) Mr. Manderson has not been the one saying he was offended. 4) I wasn't whining, don't know where you saw that. I do something about it by opening my mind and questioning, gaining understanding beforing dismissing different ideas as unworthy. I exercise my right to vote based on my knowledge and understanding. [Soap-box material] Now let me ask you. What have you done for your country? Voting is one thing but are you willing to put your life on the line for it? I have, 11 years and three conflicts. I have a right to express my shame at our actions, and for my part in them.
only two letters away from being an asset
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
Yes, the King of England didn't care for the remarks of Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, and others
Just to be pedantic. At that point in history there was no King of England. There has never been a monarch of England since the 1st May, 1707.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * UK Security Evangelists On Tour (2nd November, Edinburgh) * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog
Interesting. That is the sort information you don't get from books, only from talking and being open to other ideas. It's interesting that I don't see anyone being offended by your comment that there is no monarchy in England.
only two letters away from being an asset
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
And where was the insult? I was stating my opinion. Now on the other hand telling someone to "go to hell" can not be interpreted as anything more than an insult to the person it was directed at, not an opinion.
You asking the new American why he would want to live here and insulting the country is an insult dressed up as an opinion, a lousy one too. I don't care for you smart ass remarks.
=====Brain melting code=====
static int Sqrt(int x){ if (x<0) throw new ArgumentOutOfRangeException(); int temp, y=0, b=0x8000, bshft=15, v=x; do { if (v>=(temp=(y<<1)+b<>=1)>0); return y; :omg:====TSI TLFL EEOOLHTG===== ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Decode that and you will win.;P ============Hint=========== cout << "33 20 57 4F 52 44 53 62 63 6B 77 6F 72 64 73"; -
Yes, this was the response I was expecting from someone. If you don't agree with us, then get out. To hell with acceptence and tolerance of other views. I think peter chen's reply was on the money.
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Actually, there's a lot of things I'm not wild about in terms of how the country is run, and I suspect we'd agree on many of these issues. Even when we didn't, I would actively defend your right to express your opinions. I may not have understood your post in the spirit you intended. You appeared to respond to a guy who was excited about becoming an American citizen with an attitude of "Why would you want to become a citizen of such a screwed up place?" Maybe that's not what you meant, but I'm sure you can see how it might come across as "this place sucks." If that were true, it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask, "if you think this place sucks, then why are you here?" My point was that if you're ashamed of America, you actually have the freedom to find a country that you wouldn't be ashamed of and pursue a life there. You'll find lots of cool places on the planet. I personally like it here, even if it's not perfect. However, unlike many places in the world, being an American means you're free to leave if you find someplace you like better. In other words, rather than belittling the country you live in, do something about it. Either get active and make it better, or find someplace better and be happy. That being said, your comments probably deserved a more well considered response than a trite one liner. In my defense, I was still working on my first cup of coffee. No disrespect intended, and if you really want to live here instead of someplace else, then I'm happy to have you in the family. I don't always agree with my other relatives, either. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Yes, this was the response I was expecting from someone. If you don't agree with us, then get out. To hell with acceptence and tolerance of other views. I think peter chen's reply was on the money.
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
To hell with acceptence and tolerance of other views.
Well, I ask you to go back and read your post. It was NOT "Please explain why you wanted to become a citizen, I am not too happy with the place right now and would like understand your view." IMhO. In another words the lack of acceptance was fairly strong on YOUR Part. To me your post was came across to make your own political statement than an honest question and in the light of Robs post, was a poor place to make the statement.
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Actually, there's a lot of things I'm not wild about in terms of how the country is run, and I suspect we'd agree on many of these issues. Even when we didn't, I would actively defend your right to express your opinions. I may not have understood your post in the spirit you intended. You appeared to respond to a guy who was excited about becoming an American citizen with an attitude of "Why would you want to become a citizen of such a screwed up place?" Maybe that's not what you meant, but I'm sure you can see how it might come across as "this place sucks." If that were true, it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask, "if you think this place sucks, then why are you here?" My point was that if you're ashamed of America, you actually have the freedom to find a country that you wouldn't be ashamed of and pursue a life there. You'll find lots of cool places on the planet. I personally like it here, even if it's not perfect. However, unlike many places in the world, being an American means you're free to leave if you find someplace you like better. In other words, rather than belittling the country you live in, do something about it. Either get active and make it better, or find someplace better and be happy. That being said, your comments probably deserved a more well considered response than a trite one liner. In my defense, I was still working on my first cup of coffee. No disrespect intended, and if you really want to live here instead of someplace else, then I'm happy to have you in the family. I don't always agree with my other relatives, either. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Last word on the subject
Christopher Duncan wrote:
My point was that if you're ashamed of America, you actually have the freedom to find a country that you wouldn't be ashamed of and pursue a life there.
Being ashamed of the actions of the government that represents you is not the same things and saying, "I'm feedup with the place and want to leave". I've found the "If you don't like it, leave" sentiment is more the typical American response to a viewpoint that can't be defended, i.e. a personal opinion. We don't all have have to get along, just be understood.
only two letters away from being an asset
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
To hell with acceptence and tolerance of other views.
Well, I ask you to go back and read your post. It was NOT "Please explain why you wanted to become a citizen, I am not too happy with the place right now and would like understand your view." IMhO. In another words the lack of acceptance was fairly strong on YOUR Part. To me your post was came across to make your own political statement than an honest question and in the light of Robs post, was a poor place to make the statement.
Michael A. Barnhart wrote:
It was NOT "Please explain why you wanted to become a citizen, I am not too happy with the place right now and would like understand your view." IMhO.
You're absolutely correct. I should have phrased it better, which is a problem electronic communications, intent is difficult to convey correctly. The interesting point is the person to whom the message was directed didn't appear to be offended, and in fact gave a reasonable and considered response. The misunderstanding is coming from those who could have just as easily said, "I disagree with your viewpoint", rather than the "go to hell" and "get out" responses.
only two letters away from being an asset
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote:
It was NOT "Please explain why you wanted to become a citizen, I am not too happy with the place right now and would like understand your view." IMhO.
You're absolutely correct. I should have phrased it better, which is a problem electronic communications, intent is difficult to convey correctly. The interesting point is the person to whom the message was directed didn't appear to be offended, and in fact gave a reasonable and considered response. The misunderstanding is coming from those who could have just as easily said, "I disagree with your viewpoint", rather than the "go to hell" and "get out" responses.
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
the person to whom the message was directed didn't appear to be offended
Well, I've been playing this internet game for a dozen years; one either grows a thick skin or one gives up :) But seriously, it's never a decision taken lightly to move to another country, possibly forever, nor is the decision to become a citizen taken lightly. I'm not about to start having second thoughts based on interactions here.
Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++ My blog http://blogs.wdevs.com/ultramaroon/[^] My blog mirror http://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
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JBurkey wrote:
See how that works?
Rubbish. Where was his personal attack on you? He said that he was ashamed of his country and the way that it has treated the rest of the world i.e. it's simply his opinion which he is both entitled to and free to state. Now, if you take it as a personal insult that somebody could possibly think that there is anything bad about your country, that's really your problem. His post simply stated his opinion, with no intent to offend (as opposed to yours).
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Taka Muraoka wrote:
Rubbish. Where was his personal attack on you?
More Rubbish. He asked how he could have given offense since he first said "I don't mean to give offense." I merely provided an example whereby I first state that I mean no offense, and proceed to offend. The content and form offense was irrelevant. And don't pretend for one second that he had no intention of inflaming anyone with that post. That is either an insult to everyone else's intelligence, a sad commentary on HIS intelligence, or a terrible display of your own. Let's remember what the topic on this thread was - Someone was glad to have acheived something, on a friday night, and was feeling good about it. Why in the world would somebody go and crap all over it if they weren't trying to cause trouble, unless he is just the most socially inept bungler on the planet (a distinct possibility). He can have his opinion, I don't care. I ignore things I don't agree with all the time, but there's a time and a place for it - and it wasn't on this thread.
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Interesting. That is the sort information you don't get from books, only from talking and being open to other ideas. It's interesting that I don't see anyone being offended by your comment that there is no monarchy in England.
only two letters away from being an asset
The date Colin mentioned was the date that Scotland entered into formal union with England to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain, the monarch being styled King of Great Britain. A century earlier, in 1603, Queen Elizabeth I of England died and the crown fell to James VI of Scotland, who saw himself as an emperor of the whole island. While James liked to call himself King of Great Britain, this title did not officially exist until political union in 1707. King James VI of Scotland and I of England (same bloke) was also responsible for the Union Jack (allegedly called 'Jack' after the Latin version of his name, Jacobus). It's my belief that the dominance of the red cross of St George, being superimposed on the white cross of St Andrew on the blue field, in the flag is a reflection that he considered England to be of prime importance in his domains. Certainly on gaining the crown of England he moved almost immediately to London and rarely visited Scotland. For completeness, Ireland (or parts thereof) had been a possession of the English crown since the 12th century but these posessions were not known as the Kingdom of Ireland until 1541, the King in question being Henry VIII. This was again a Personal Union (a situation where one King has more than one crown, rules more than one kingdom, but politically the kingdoms are separate). The Irish Parliament eventually were bribed into the Act of Union with Great Britain in 1800, which added Ireland (by this time wholly conquered by the British forces) to the new state, and added the red diagonal cross, supposedly representing St Patrick although not really recognised by Irishmen, to the Union Jack. The red diagonal parts are in fact only half a cross, divided along the corner-to-corner lines; the flag should be hung with the white diagonal cross uppermost with respect to the staff, indicating Scotland's seniority in the union, rotating clockwise across the flag (this is a heraldic convention) so that in the right-hand side of the flag (if the flag is seen with the staff on the left), the red appears above the white. Wales is not represented in the flag as Wales became a possession of England long before these events, in 1284 after being conquered by Edward I. Wales had never been a kingdom, it was ruled by various princes at the time of the English conquest. It's common for Americans to call this state England, but its recognised title is 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.' England is a geographic area which isn't really represented
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Taka Muraoka wrote:
Rubbish. Where was his personal attack on you?
More Rubbish. He asked how he could have given offense since he first said "I don't mean to give offense." I merely provided an example whereby I first state that I mean no offense, and proceed to offend. The content and form offense was irrelevant. And don't pretend for one second that he had no intention of inflaming anyone with that post. That is either an insult to everyone else's intelligence, a sad commentary on HIS intelligence, or a terrible display of your own. Let's remember what the topic on this thread was - Someone was glad to have acheived something, on a friday night, and was feeling good about it. Why in the world would somebody go and crap all over it if they weren't trying to cause trouble, unless he is just the most socially inept bungler on the planet (a distinct possibility). He can have his opinion, I don't care. I ignore things I don't agree with all the time, but there's a time and a place for it - and it wasn't on this thread.
JBurkey wrote:
Why in the world would somebody go and crap all over it if they weren't trying to cause trouble
Context is everything. Where was he trying to crap all over it? He simply asked "why" (and gave a hint as to why he was asking). If someone you knew just changed his nationality, what would your first question be?
JBurkey wrote:
unless he is just the most socially inept bungler on the planet (a distinct possibility)
Again, context. His profile indicates he is a strong contributor here. His icon indicates that he is a financial supporter. Look at his post here[^]. Most importantly, look at Rob's reply[^] to his original question. People, this is what mature, intelligent conversation looks like. Not everyone here is an childish, argumentative troll :|
JBurkey wrote:
He can have his opinion, I don't care. I ignore things I don't agree with all the time
This pretty much sums it up. I never ignore something simply because I don't agree with it. I might ignore someone because they are stupid or close-minded and there are plenty of people who I refuse to reply to but I'll always be willing and open-minded enough to to talk with someone who does something that I'm curious as to why.
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2.3 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
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The date Colin mentioned was the date that Scotland entered into formal union with England to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain, the monarch being styled King of Great Britain. A century earlier, in 1603, Queen Elizabeth I of England died and the crown fell to James VI of Scotland, who saw himself as an emperor of the whole island. While James liked to call himself King of Great Britain, this title did not officially exist until political union in 1707. King James VI of Scotland and I of England (same bloke) was also responsible for the Union Jack (allegedly called 'Jack' after the Latin version of his name, Jacobus). It's my belief that the dominance of the red cross of St George, being superimposed on the white cross of St Andrew on the blue field, in the flag is a reflection that he considered England to be of prime importance in his domains. Certainly on gaining the crown of England he moved almost immediately to London and rarely visited Scotland. For completeness, Ireland (or parts thereof) had been a possession of the English crown since the 12th century but these posessions were not known as the Kingdom of Ireland until 1541, the King in question being Henry VIII. This was again a Personal Union (a situation where one King has more than one crown, rules more than one kingdom, but politically the kingdoms are separate). The Irish Parliament eventually were bribed into the Act of Union with Great Britain in 1800, which added Ireland (by this time wholly conquered by the British forces) to the new state, and added the red diagonal cross, supposedly representing St Patrick although not really recognised by Irishmen, to the Union Jack. The red diagonal parts are in fact only half a cross, divided along the corner-to-corner lines; the flag should be hung with the white diagonal cross uppermost with respect to the staff, indicating Scotland's seniority in the union, rotating clockwise across the flag (this is a heraldic convention) so that in the right-hand side of the flag (if the flag is seen with the staff on the left), the red appears above the white. Wales is not represented in the flag as Wales became a possession of England long before these events, in 1284 after being conquered by Edward I. Wales had never been a kingdom, it was ruled by various princes at the time of the English conquest. It's common for Americans to call this state England, but its recognised title is 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.' England is a geographic area which isn't really represented
Very in depth, thanks. I knew a little of this, I spent about two years living in a small cottage near the remains of Fotheringhay Castle in Northhaptonshire, and often drove past Cromwell's place in Huntingdon, and found the history to very interesting.
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