Vista Licensing revisited..
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Or was it me?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighistMost of us have been complaining about it since DOS.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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Or was it me?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighist -
diriproject wrote:
such licenses because the break almost every european law with it.
Which ones, exactly?
Every law related to ownership. You buy a car, a building, a book, a computer, software, ... Renting something needs a special contract. This must be signed before you open the box. -- modified at 6:25 Monday 16th October, 2006 To give you a better impression: You buy a car and afterwards you are told to not to be allowed to drive left at any crossing. Microsoft tries the very same in relation to their software.
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Steve_Harris wrote:
no 64-bit RealPlayer for Linux
I don't have a 64 bit machine, but does mplayer not work well? I have kmplayer will lots of codecs which plays some real media as well. BTW I am not sure of the licensing of the codecs.
I think mplayer works fine, but there is some streamed content (like the BBC :-() which *only* works through RealPlayer.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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You don't pay for a product. You pay for the right to use a copy of a product on a PC.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighistpeterchen wrote:
You pay for the right to use a copy of a product on a PC
Can you run Vista straight off the DVD? No. Therefore you do not run a 'copy of a product' on the PC. The product doesnt exist till it is on your PC.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx[^] A while back on in the Lounge we were talking about the new licensing. It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one. One issue we had hoped for is that they would allow the system to power up to five machines as does Apple, but that is not happening either. Additionally, they are forcing periodic revaluations your license which if you do not allow to occur, will cripple your system until you do. This means that you system MUST be connected to internet at some point to validate. Another funny point is that the software is only licensed to use "up to" two processors. Guess you have to run Server if you are going to use a quad core... There are also a few limitations for virtual servers and may only use if using Vista Ultimate. Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over... I do not know what the people at Microsoft are smoking, but I small a fall coming if they do not get a clue quickly! :zzz: So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days? ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
Rocky Moore wrote:
"retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever!
sure. And it has always been like that. When you transfer the license to a new machine it it no longer on the old machine. And from that new machine you can tzransfer it to another (third) machine. An so on. This has nothing to do with the need for "reactivation" when you upgrade your machine. I would suggest that you *read* the licensing terms before you tell such nonsense. Jochen
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Rocky Moore wrote:
"retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever!
sure. And it has always been like that. When you transfer the license to a new machine it it no longer on the old machine. And from that new machine you can tzransfer it to another (third) machine. An so on. This has nothing to do with the need for "reactivation" when you upgrade your machine. I would suggest that you *read* the licensing terms before you tell such nonsense. Jochen
brings you to the question what constitutes an upgrade/move. Consider the case when I have two very similar systems(same processor/mobo/gpu), and if I move the hard disk with vista installed from one to the other; and then need to update some driver from Microsoft website which requires validation, would the validation fail? a restore from ghost image is a similar situation, if some hardware has changed since I created the image, will my machine be considered a new device? If I do this more than once, is it still legal? BTW, whateven be the definition of a device, it is clearly stated that you cannot move Vista more than once.
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brings you to the question what constitutes an upgrade/move. Consider the case when I have two very similar systems(same processor/mobo/gpu), and if I move the hard disk with vista installed from one to the other; and then need to update some driver from Microsoft website which requires validation, would the validation fail? a restore from ghost image is a similar situation, if some hardware has changed since I created the image, will my machine be considered a new device? If I do this more than once, is it still legal? BTW, whateven be the definition of a device, it is clearly stated that you cannot move Vista more than once.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
a restore from ghost image is a similar situation, if some hardware has changed since I created the image, will my machine be considered a new device?
no. It's an upgrade and maybe you need reactivation. You'll have the 30 day graceperiod, just like with XP. "Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate it until you do."
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
BTW, whateven be the definition of a device, it is clearly stated that you cannot move Vista more than once.
sure. As I said. You can move it only once to a new device because after that gzere is nothing left that you can move. You then can move it *once* to a third device and so on. Just READ. "The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.” [...] The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software, and this agreement, directly to a third party. The first user must uninstall the software before transferring it separately from the device. The first user may not retain any copies." This "one time" does not relate to the total number of moves, it relates to the number of moves allowed to move from one spefific device. Jochen
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peterchen wrote:
You pay for the right to use a copy of a product on a PC
Can you run Vista straight off the DVD? No. Therefore you do not run a 'copy of a product' on the PC. The product doesnt exist till it is on your PC.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
This sounds like "Britney Spears doesn't exist until the song is in your mind" :~ (Which I wouldn't mind, but it's a confusing idea)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighist -
When I say little things, for example, when you are copying files and it hits one that has an error, it prompts you to skip the file, cancel or continue. There are a lot of little things like this (that do not come to mind at the moment), which are simple, but very useful. I can't believe they found time to fix that!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighistpeterchen wrote:
I can't believe they found time to fix that!
You know, that is just the point of this new OS though. Many people are looking for the big things, the shock and awe, but all those simple little things they have improved are the ones that people will appreciate for years to come after the hype of Aero and other technologies slows down. I tried Vista looking for those big things, but it is all the little things I find enjoyable. Even old Explorer has had a face lift. On simple little feature is the location bar in Explorer. It has the list of nested folders (in the current location you are browsing) listed as a series of dropdown menus so you can easily select a different folder at any level through that location. That is cool, but what happens when you want to copy the location into the clipboard? The minute you click into the location area (past the end of the location), it converts the line to a text location such as "c:\windows\system32". Simple thing, but this really works well!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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I had decided that I was going to buy a retail version of Vista as soon as I could. I figured if I was going to pay that much for it, I would want to use it as long as I could. This completely changes my mind. Why would I buy a copy when I know the first computer I put it on is going to choke on it? What a freakin' load.
Shaffer wrote:
Why would I buy a copy when I know the first computer I put it on is going to choke on it?
Not quite sure what you mean. You will be able to install it on your machine and then down the road if you upgrade to a new machine you will be able to transfer it to that one also, but no further than that.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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They need family/small business licenses. It's only $30 less per each additional license of the Business edition. That adds up to $1100 for the 4 computers in my business/family. I can't afford it. It's insane that I can't afford an OS. Most families own more than one computer nowadays. I was dying to buy Vista when it came out, but now I can't.
Yep, I think MS is dropping the ball on this one. If they allowed consumers to install the OS on up to five machines as does Apple, I think people could swallow the price a bit better. If you need the power of Vista Ultimate, you would need $399 per box ($250 per upgraded box). That is pretty high since you can buy a new computer for $299...
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx[^] A while back on in the Lounge we were talking about the new licensing. It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one. One issue we had hoped for is that they would allow the system to power up to five machines as does Apple, but that is not happening either. Additionally, they are forcing periodic revaluations your license which if you do not allow to occur, will cripple your system until you do. This means that you system MUST be connected to internet at some point to validate. Another funny point is that the software is only licensed to use "up to" two processors. Guess you have to run Server if you are going to use a quad core... There are also a few limitations for virtual servers and may only use if using Vista Ultimate. Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over... I do not know what the people at Microsoft are smoking, but I small a fall coming if they do not get a clue quickly! :zzz: So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days? ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
Rocky Moore wrote:
Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over...
[sarcasm]I have a huge chubbie over this...[/sarcasm]
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Who cares? Let me count the number of times in the past this licensing would have caused me problems when upgrading. Zero. (Yup, really did count all the installations and what hardware I used--the computer I'm using right now is, in fact, the only computer with that has had just one OS on it; all my other computers have gone through multiple operating systems.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Let me count the number of times in the past this licensing would have caused me problems when upgrading.
The upgrades that I've done are usually more memory and better hard drives. However, I do re-install the OS every year or so and clean up the entire system. And I do this usually by replacing the hard disk. I assume this would mean Vista would think I'm using a different machine. :~ Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Who cares? Let me count the number of times in the past this licensing would have caused me problems when upgrading. Zero. (Yup, really did count all the installations and what hardware I used--the computer I'm using right now is, in fact, the only computer with that has had just one OS on it; all my other computers have gone through multiple operating systems.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
(Yup, really did count all the installations and what hardware I used--the computer I'm using right now is, in fact, the only computer with that has had just one OS on it; all my other computers have gone through multiple operating systems.)
Well, I guess we don't all keep our computers for 15 years ;) It would really depend on the type of user and how good or bad there hardware the picked turns out. I usually keep upgrading my machines. The dev box I have right now is the same I have had for about seven years. It has been rebuilt twice in the length of time (which under the new licensing I would not be able to rebuild it until Vista XP 2010).
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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Rocky Moore wrote:
So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days?
Been running 64-bit Ubuntu at home for ages now and it's great. There's no 64-bit RealPlayer for Linux yet but I'm sure it's on its way... Like all OSes its suitability depends on what you want to do on it!
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
Steve_Harris wrote:
Been running 64-bit Ubuntu at home for ages now and it's great.
I may actually play around with a distro in the near future just to see how much of my hardware it will actually detect or can be made to work.
Steve_Harris wrote:
There's no 64-bit RealPlayer for Linux yet but I'm sure it's on its way...
Not so sure that is a blessing ;) If Realplayer is anything like their PC version, I would consider it a virus :)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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can someone tell me what constitutes a different device? if i reinstall the OS after putting in a new video card, would it be considered another device? what about the LAN card? if it uses LAN card's mac address or something similar, would it be ok if I carry my LAN card along when I move to a different machine? If this means a total of 2 activations of fresh installations even if the device does not, then Microsoft might as well not release Vista and charge the XP users some money for continuing to use it beyond the support period.
Yeah, it is like this last month when I replaced my MB, CPU, RAM, Power Supply and video card on my dev machine. I would imagine they would consider that a different device ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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Rocky Moore wrote:
"retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever!
sure. And it has always been like that. When you transfer the license to a new machine it it no longer on the old machine. And from that new machine you can tzransfer it to another (third) machine. An so on. This has nothing to do with the need for "reactivation" when you upgrade your machine. I would suggest that you *read* the licensing terms before you tell such nonsense. Jochen
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
And it has always been like that. When you transfer the license to a new machine it it no longer on the old machine. And from that new machine you can tzransfer it to another (third) machine. An so on.
Nope, not in the license. You cannot transfer it (or install) to a third box regardless if it is not on your old boxes. That is the point, it has a limited life span of your current box and one other in the future, no more.
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
I would suggest that you *read* the licensing terms before you tell such nonsense.
You might want to take that action yourself!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
And it has always been like that. When you transfer the license to a new machine it it no longer on the old machine. And from that new machine you can tzransfer it to another (third) machine. An so on.
Nope, not in the license. You cannot transfer it (or install) to a third box regardless if it is not on your old boxes. That is the point, it has a limited life span of your current box and one other in the future, no more.
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
I would suggest that you *read* the licensing terms before you tell such nonsense.
You might want to take that action yourself!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
Rocky Moore wrote:
You might want to take that action yourself!
here it is: "The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.” [...] The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software, and this agreement, directly to a third party. The first user must uninstall the software before transferring it separately from the device. The first user may not retain any copies."
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Rocky Moore wrote:
You might want to take that action yourself!
here it is: "The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.” [...] The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software, and this agreement, directly to a third party. The first user must uninstall the software before transferring it separately from the device. The first user may not retain any copies."
That applies to transfering this to a third party. Even at that it goes on to say: Other Requirements. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software. The transfer must include the proof of license. If the original part had already transfered to a new machine once, then it appears they could not transfer it to a third part as they third party would have to agree with the licensing and the terms of the license would already be expired for transfers. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.” You can only move it to one other machine after it is installed. Here is a simple example of the problem: Let us say that today I purchased Vista Ultimate for $399 and installed it on my system. In a month my system takes a dump and I purchase a new Coreduo system. I can install the OS on that system and reassign the license to that machine. At this point I would not be able to transfer Vista to a third person as the amount of reassignments have been exausted. If something happens down the road and I need to move to a new system, I have to buy Vista Ultimate again.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!