Vista Licensing revisited..
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I had decided that I was going to buy a retail version of Vista as soon as I could. I figured if I was going to pay that much for it, I would want to use it as long as I could. This completely changes my mind. Why would I buy a copy when I know the first computer I put it on is going to choke on it? What a freakin' load.
Shaffer wrote:
Why would I buy a copy when I know the first computer I put it on is going to choke on it?
Not quite sure what you mean. You will be able to install it on your machine and then down the road if you upgrade to a new machine you will be able to transfer it to that one also, but no further than that.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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They need family/small business licenses. It's only $30 less per each additional license of the Business edition. That adds up to $1100 for the 4 computers in my business/family. I can't afford it. It's insane that I can't afford an OS. Most families own more than one computer nowadays. I was dying to buy Vista when it came out, but now I can't.
Yep, I think MS is dropping the ball on this one. If they allowed consumers to install the OS on up to five machines as does Apple, I think people could swallow the price a bit better. If you need the power of Vista Ultimate, you would need $399 per box ($250 per upgraded box). That is pretty high since you can buy a new computer for $299...
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx[^] A while back on in the Lounge we were talking about the new licensing. It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one. One issue we had hoped for is that they would allow the system to power up to five machines as does Apple, but that is not happening either. Additionally, they are forcing periodic revaluations your license which if you do not allow to occur, will cripple your system until you do. This means that you system MUST be connected to internet at some point to validate. Another funny point is that the software is only licensed to use "up to" two processors. Guess you have to run Server if you are going to use a quad core... There are also a few limitations for virtual servers and may only use if using Vista Ultimate. Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over... I do not know what the people at Microsoft are smoking, but I small a fall coming if they do not get a clue quickly! :zzz: So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days? ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
Rocky Moore wrote:
Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over...
[sarcasm]I have a huge chubbie over this...[/sarcasm]
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Who cares? Let me count the number of times in the past this licensing would have caused me problems when upgrading. Zero. (Yup, really did count all the installations and what hardware I used--the computer I'm using right now is, in fact, the only computer with that has had just one OS on it; all my other computers have gone through multiple operating systems.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Let me count the number of times in the past this licensing would have caused me problems when upgrading.
The upgrades that I've done are usually more memory and better hard drives. However, I do re-install the OS every year or so and clean up the entire system. And I do this usually by replacing the hard disk. I assume this would mean Vista would think I'm using a different machine. :~ Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Who cares? Let me count the number of times in the past this licensing would have caused me problems when upgrading. Zero. (Yup, really did count all the installations and what hardware I used--the computer I'm using right now is, in fact, the only computer with that has had just one OS on it; all my other computers have gone through multiple operating systems.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
(Yup, really did count all the installations and what hardware I used--the computer I'm using right now is, in fact, the only computer with that has had just one OS on it; all my other computers have gone through multiple operating systems.)
Well, I guess we don't all keep our computers for 15 years ;) It would really depend on the type of user and how good or bad there hardware the picked turns out. I usually keep upgrading my machines. The dev box I have right now is the same I have had for about seven years. It has been rebuilt twice in the length of time (which under the new licensing I would not be able to rebuild it until Vista XP 2010).
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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Rocky Moore wrote:
So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days?
Been running 64-bit Ubuntu at home for ages now and it's great. There's no 64-bit RealPlayer for Linux yet but I'm sure it's on its way... Like all OSes its suitability depends on what you want to do on it!
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
Steve_Harris wrote:
Been running 64-bit Ubuntu at home for ages now and it's great.
I may actually play around with a distro in the near future just to see how much of my hardware it will actually detect or can be made to work.
Steve_Harris wrote:
There's no 64-bit RealPlayer for Linux yet but I'm sure it's on its way...
Not so sure that is a blessing ;) If Realplayer is anything like their PC version, I would consider it a virus :)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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can someone tell me what constitutes a different device? if i reinstall the OS after putting in a new video card, would it be considered another device? what about the LAN card? if it uses LAN card's mac address or something similar, would it be ok if I carry my LAN card along when I move to a different machine? If this means a total of 2 activations of fresh installations even if the device does not, then Microsoft might as well not release Vista and charge the XP users some money for continuing to use it beyond the support period.
Yeah, it is like this last month when I replaced my MB, CPU, RAM, Power Supply and video card on my dev machine. I would imagine they would consider that a different device ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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Rocky Moore wrote:
"retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever!
sure. And it has always been like that. When you transfer the license to a new machine it it no longer on the old machine. And from that new machine you can tzransfer it to another (third) machine. An so on. This has nothing to do with the need for "reactivation" when you upgrade your machine. I would suggest that you *read* the licensing terms before you tell such nonsense. Jochen
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
And it has always been like that. When you transfer the license to a new machine it it no longer on the old machine. And from that new machine you can tzransfer it to another (third) machine. An so on.
Nope, not in the license. You cannot transfer it (or install) to a third box regardless if it is not on your old boxes. That is the point, it has a limited life span of your current box and one other in the future, no more.
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
I would suggest that you *read* the licensing terms before you tell such nonsense.
You might want to take that action yourself!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
And it has always been like that. When you transfer the license to a new machine it it no longer on the old machine. And from that new machine you can tzransfer it to another (third) machine. An so on.
Nope, not in the license. You cannot transfer it (or install) to a third box regardless if it is not on your old boxes. That is the point, it has a limited life span of your current box and one other in the future, no more.
Jochen_Muenchen wrote:
I would suggest that you *read* the licensing terms before you tell such nonsense.
You might want to take that action yourself!
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
Rocky Moore wrote:
You might want to take that action yourself!
here it is: "The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.” [...] The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software, and this agreement, directly to a third party. The first user must uninstall the software before transferring it separately from the device. The first user may not retain any copies."
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Rocky Moore wrote:
You might want to take that action yourself!
here it is: "The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.” [...] The first user of the software may make a one time transfer of the software, and this agreement, directly to a third party. The first user must uninstall the software before transferring it separately from the device. The first user may not retain any copies."
That applies to transfering this to a third party. Even at that it goes on to say: Other Requirements. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software. The transfer must include the proof of license. If the original part had already transfered to a new machine once, then it appears they could not transfer it to a third part as they third party would have to agree with the licensing and the terms of the license would already be expired for transfers. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.” You can only move it to one other machine after it is installed. Here is a simple example of the problem: Let us say that today I purchased Vista Ultimate for $399 and installed it on my system. In a month my system takes a dump and I purchase a new Coreduo system. I can install the OS on that system and reassign the license to that machine. At this point I would not be able to transfer Vista to a third person as the amount of reassignments have been exausted. If something happens down the road and I need to move to a new system, I have to buy Vista Ultimate again.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
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That applies to transfering this to a third party. Even at that it goes on to say: Other Requirements. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software. The transfer must include the proof of license. If the original part had already transfered to a new machine once, then it appears they could not transfer it to a third part as they third party would have to agree with the licensing and the terms of the license would already be expired for transfers. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.” You can only move it to one other machine after it is installed. Here is a simple example of the problem: Let us say that today I purchased Vista Ultimate for $399 and installed it on my system. In a month my system takes a dump and I purchase a new Coreduo system. I can install the OS on that system and reassign the license to that machine. At this point I would not be able to transfer Vista to a third person as the amount of reassignments have been exausted. If something happens down the road and I need to move to a new system, I have to buy Vista Ultimate again.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
Rocky Moore wrote:
If the original part had already transfered to a new machine once, then it appears they could not transfer it to a third part as they third party would have to agree with the licensing and the terms of the license would already be expired for transfers.
no. And it has always been like this that the receiver of a license must agree to the terms before he can use the license.
Rocky Moore wrote:
At this point I would not be able to transfer Vista to a third person as the amount of reassignments have been exausted
no. There is no "amount of reassigments".
Rocky Moore wrote:
You can only move it to one other machine after it is installed.
You can move it to one machine and then you can move it from that machine to yet another one. And so on. You only have to make sure that on any point in time there is only one computer where the license is installed. Jochen
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Rocky Moore wrote:
If the original part had already transfered to a new machine once, then it appears they could not transfer it to a third part as they third party would have to agree with the licensing and the terms of the license would already be expired for transfers.
no. And it has always been like this that the receiver of a license must agree to the terms before he can use the license.
Rocky Moore wrote:
At this point I would not be able to transfer Vista to a third person as the amount of reassignments have been exausted
no. There is no "amount of reassigments".
Rocky Moore wrote:
You can only move it to one other machine after it is installed.
You can move it to one machine and then you can move it from that machine to yet another one. And so on. You only have to make sure that on any point in time there is only one computer where the license is installed. Jochen
Jochen, when you move XP or higher this way you have to re-activate your product normally. Put your car into another garage and you have to ask manufacturer about a new key because of this move. That's the very same. You still defeat MS for such behaviour?
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Or was it me?
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighistInstallation of Vista takes 1 hour on an AMD Athlon X2 4200+ , 2GB RAM, ASUS A8N SLI Mother board. Annoying black screens, leaving us to guess whether the installation is broken or running. Licensing ? huh.
Regards srk
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Rocky Moore wrote:
Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over...
[sarcasm]I have a huge chubbie over this...[/sarcasm]
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Do they send me fixes for free than? I don't get rid of impression that some decission makers are not aware how many people on earth have no broadband available but a modem as well as those people have to pay for time being online in internet.
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Jochen, when you move XP or higher this way you have to re-activate your product normally. Put your car into another garage and you have to ask manufacturer about a new key because of this move. That's the very same. You still defeat MS for such behaviour?
diriproject wrote:
when you move XP or higher this way you have to re-activate your product normally.
where is the problem with that? Jochen
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Do they send me fixes for free than? I don't get rid of impression that some decission makers are not aware how many people on earth have no broadband available but a modem as well as those people have to pay for time being online in internet.
diriproject wrote:
Do they send me fixes for free than?
yes. From time to time Microsoft collects all available fixes on a CD and distributes it for free. You can find then glued to comp mags everwhere or the give it away on tradeshows. Jochen
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diriproject wrote:
when you move XP or higher this way you have to re-activate your product normally.
where is the problem with that? Jochen
???? Put your car into you neightbour's garage. When you want to drive afterwards you have to get a new key because of this. That's ok for you???? When I pay for something it's mine. It's never the task of manufacturer to tell me what to do with this product. I can buy a software and use it or push it into trash. Who cares?
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???? Put your car into you neightbour's garage. When you want to drive afterwards you have to get a new key because of this. That's ok for you???? When I pay for something it's mine. It's never the task of manufacturer to tell me what to do with this product. I can buy a software and use it or push it into trash. Who cares?
Software is not a car, it's a license. Thats a different story.
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diriproject wrote:
Do they send me fixes for free than?
yes. From time to time Microsoft collects all available fixes on a CD and distributes it for free. You can find then glued to comp mags everwhere or the give it away on tradeshows. Jochen
Do they pay me to visit those tradeshows or send those CDs after each patchday for free? Remark: At last patchday they fixed some issues being introduced at patchday before.
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http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx[^] A while back on in the Lounge we were talking about the new licensing. It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one. One issue we had hoped for is that they would allow the system to power up to five machines as does Apple, but that is not happening either. Additionally, they are forcing periodic revaluations your license which if you do not allow to occur, will cripple your system until you do. This means that you system MUST be connected to internet at some point to validate. Another funny point is that the software is only licensed to use "up to" two processors. Guess you have to run Server if you are going to use a quad core... There are also a few limitations for virtual servers and may only use if using Vista Ultimate. Oh, but the bright side is that they have extended their "warranty" to 1 year.. Oh, doesn't it just give you chills all over... I do not know what the people at Microsoft are smoking, but I small a fall coming if they do not get a clue quickly! :zzz: So, how is the 64 bit versions of Linux going these days? ;)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Windows Vista - My Journey begins!
Rocky Moore wrote:
It is offical though, "retail" versions of Vista may only be transferred to one future box forever! I had thought this would only apply to OEM (which would make more sense), but it is not, it is for th retail version. Gamers who update their systems more than most people change socks will get bit hard by this one.
I think the most powerful source of complaints toward this new licensing scheme will be the hardware retailers. I can imagine that this policy could cause computer hardware sales to decline. I know I would be much more reluctant to upgrade my PC if I knew I'd need to purchase a new OS license. I'd be interested to see what happens if hardware sales do decline as a result. Pressure from major companies who include Windows on their prebuilt machines, who in turn received pressure from hardware manufacturing companies could be the deciding factor for Microsoft to change this license restriction. Microsoft would be really feeling the hurt if these companies started offering other non-Microsoft OS packages as an alternative or replacement.