Pointy-haird bosses
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The Grand Negus wrote:
Well, does it?
Yes it does.
The Grand Negus wrote:
If so, how much faster?
2-5 times faster than developing in c++, vb 6.0, foxpro, dbase, pascal, classic asp, java. Its relative to the software you want to compare with. Just drag and drop couple of buttons, textboxes, labels, listview and write some events and you have a form ready, imagine this same thing in c++ or java. You will have to write at least 5-6 times the code to draw these forms, buttons, listview and other stuff.
The Grand Negus wrote:
If not, what good is it?
(4 million members - you) think its good :).
Tarakeshwar Reddy wrote:
eady, imagine this same thing in c++ or java. You will have to write at least 5-6 times the code to draw these forms, buttons, listview and other stuff.
The fundamental flaw in your assumption is that the developer in the non .net language has never done it before. Most have and in most cases rather than start from scratch they will reuse what they have already built.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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Where do they come from?:rolleyes: I gave a briefing to my new boss and some staff about what .NET is all about. His response was "I don't understand. I thought .NET would allow you to write applications faster. How can it take six months to write something? Did we make a mistake going this route?" His view of .NET prior to my presentation was that .NET was just another reusable library, plug it in and you have an application.
only two letters away from being an asset
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The Grand Negus wrote:
I'm interested, like the original poster's boss, in productivity
Well, as you were not here during the presentation and discussion, I would not persume to know what anyone meant. In fact, he statement had nothing to do with productivity and was of a more general nature.
only two letters away from being an asset
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Yes. The Grand Negass seems to be standing on his again.
only two letters away from being an asset
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I'd say it's significant. I've spent the last three days doing something in C++ that would have taken me minutes or hours in C# (unfortunately, this is meant to run on Linux so .NET is a non-starter).
Cheers, Patrick
Given that I'm ignorant of what you are working on, I still hazard a guess that it is the availability of libraries and third party products that makes the difference. Not the actual language. But for some that is just semantics. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar]
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pretend to be catbert, probably thing will go much better from then on :-D
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The Grand Negus wrote:
Does .NET make development faster?
More productive? Perhaps, assuming that you throw out all the Macros, development tools, and libs that I've used in the past for C/C++. I'd be interested in a real case study on this myself. I've read numerous things where people state that they are more productive with .net. I'd love to read a paper that quantifies their findings.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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The Grand Negus wrote:
Well, does it? If so, how much faster? If not, what good is it?
No, IMO, it does not. I've had to implement, override or re-implement just about every critical element that .NET supposedly handles for me in order to get a stable and/or usable application. Communications, remoting, UI, USB, database (except for primitives like connection and DataTable classes), etc. The only thing I like about .NET is reflection, and that's not actually a .NET thing, but a language feature. Conversely, it doesn't take more time, IMO, than, say a C++ app. And I refuse to touch MFC anymore. In many ways, it was worse than .NET. So what good is it? It's a tool, but if I'd known then what I know now, I probably wouldn't have switched from C++ and I would have figured out a way (of which there are a variety of options) to implement reflection-like features in C++. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
The Grand Negus wrote:
schoolgirls".
Care to explain that remark?
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
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The Grand Negus wrote:
Well, does it?
Yes it does.
The Grand Negus wrote:
If so, how much faster?
2-5 times faster than developing in c++, vb 6.0, foxpro, dbase, pascal, classic asp, java. Its relative to the software you want to compare with. Just drag and drop couple of buttons, textboxes, labels, listview and write some events and you have a form ready, imagine this same thing in c++ or java. You will have to write at least 5-6 times the code to draw these forms, buttons, listview and other stuff.
The Grand Negus wrote:
If not, what good is it?
(4 million members - you) think its good :).
Tarakeshwar Reddy wrote:
Just drag and drop couple of buttons, textboxes, labels, listview and write some events and you have a form ready
:wtf::omg: You make me want to switch sides in this argument X| But don't mind me continue on with your drag n drop it's all good mentality.
led mike
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Given that I'm ignorant of what you are working on, I still hazard a guess that it is the availability of libraries and third party products that makes the difference. Not the actual language. But for some that is just semantics. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar]
Your guess is pretty much spot-on. Socket programming and thread management is significantly easier in .NET than it is in C++ - I'm working on the server-side state machine for a Windows-based processing control program.
Cheers, Patrick
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So a schoolboy who dislikes someone because they are smaller, a different race, chubby, etc. that's considered a higher standard that girls who dislike another girl because she is pretty, gets good grades, has nicer clothes, etc? You should read articles that discuss the rise of girl bullies.
__________________ Bob is my homeboy.
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It really depends on how much you have invested in the language/framework you're leaving and what type of work you wish to do. Just as how MFC speeded development for some applications verses win32 so too does .NET speed development. For me, I can develop faster in .NET. But you still have to write your application. Sounds like what Mark was originally referring to was that the pointy haired boss expected .NET to write the app for them. Almost anything UI is faster than win32 or MFC, but again, it depends on how much you have invested. If you've coded your own library around win32 that allows you similiar advantages then it might not be faster. But with the IDE the gain is almost offset by the poor performance of the IDE.
This statement was never false.
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Yeah, it is a little reasonable considering that in the past you've used these simple questions as a segue into PE. There is a point to your question after all isn't there? The overwhelming complexity and mass of anything MS? Call me wrong if you wish but you've set a track record with this.
This statement was never false.
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Very significant. Under .NET compared to MFC under windows and even with regard to windows services, COM interop, etc, I'm about twice as productive. Alot of that is due to what's supplied in this API. MFC wasn't as robust or as well organized. COM interop is way easier. Threading is easier. Sockets is easier. All of this enables me to double my production. And what's funny is that I was writing my own C++ library wrapping win32 to do all of this, and found that .NET and C# actually supplied it for me out of the box. So its already packaged according to how I think. Seriously, I wrote my own version of the delegate before I realized .NET supplied it.
This statement was never false.
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Your guess is pretty much spot-on. Socket programming and thread management is significantly easier in .NET than it is in C++ - I'm working on the server-side state machine for a Windows-based processing control program.
Cheers, Patrick
Exactly. Wrote a handy asynchronous transaction server in two days. Would have been a few hours, but I needed it to be a bit robust, with dynamic transaction handlers that are loaded on the back end so that the whole process could be data driven.
This statement was never false.