Developer's Age !
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Kareem, thanks for going to my blog. I am still pretty obscure. Most of my work in the last 10 years has been either putting out fires or implementing something that requires a wide range of technologies, old and new. I haven’t worked much in a team environment recently. I think I am usually paid on the higher end but once the situation is in control I get cut. I have been guilty of sitting back and letting work come to me. In the earlier days I was getting the chance to create new innovative applications, but that is just not happening now. I am hoping to break out of that cycle and I’m trying to use blogging as my vehicle. The interesting thing is that I have always enjoyed mentoring young energetic newcomers. I am thinking of them when I develop my posts. Jim Freer http://freerpad.blogspot.com/
JimHFreer wrote:
I have been guilty of sitting back and letting work come to me. In the earlier days I was getting the chance to create new innovative applications, but that is just not happening now
I hope you the best of all :), it's my pleasure speaking to you :rose:
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Hello Edward, That's interesting, thank you so much for these lines, also I would like to know about how do you cope with bad management, and what if your manager is 10 years younger than you, also do you get the same pay as young developers having the same designation? Thanks alot :)
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Hi Kareem, I cope with bad management by speaking up, for example, when requirements are vague or deadlines unreasonable. These are things I never uttered a word about when I was younger, I thought I had to endure whatever came with the job. Not so! If my manager is 10 years younger, as was the case with my most recent manager, that's just the way it is. We communicated well so we worked together well. Also we knew and respected each other's strengths. I don't know how my pay ranks with young developers with the same title and don't really care. Regards, Edward...
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Imagine how much better the company could be, and the more mature it's products, when the average age is upped with a little wisdom of Life XP ;) Arjan Keene (four times eleven) -- modified at 13:21 Monday 16th July, 2007
After just leaving MS... for greener grass, I find that what is most disconcerting is their lack of human interaction. Most of the people that I interacted with, (barring some exceptions to the rule of course) were just waiting for you to leave to get back to work and some hardly even pulled their eyes off their screen when you were talking with them...
wahoo
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Kareem Shaker wrote:
I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s
And? This is a surprise? what? 25 years of experience is rubbish simply because you topped 40? I still invent new algorithms at 42. I still program, I invented a few things they teach at school. So just because I am 42 I am somehow too old to do programming? :rolleyes: Age is ultimately irrelevant, its the side-effects of age that matter, and that is individualized. Whether young or old, it is what you do with your education and experience. Age neither makes you a genius, nor does youth. Can a PhD match work experience? that depends on both the PhD owner and the guy with experience. There are no absolutes here. No positive indication that a person is too old to program, nor too young (per se, there are limits by fundamental growth of the human nerveous system, even including child-geniuses, there are limits there too). Ultimately it is all up to you and what you do with the talents you have. That is irrespective of age. I am neither small, nor big. I simply am. I do the job that needs to be done, and I do it again when it needs to be done again. If something hasn't been done, I do it, if something needs to be done better, I do it.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
I'm a 14 year old C/C++ programmer :p I've been doing that for about a year to two years and have programming PHP since I was about 11 and Javascript since I was about 9 lol :) --PerspX
"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." - Bill Gates
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Hi Kareem, I cope with bad management by speaking up, for example, when requirements are vague or deadlines unreasonable. These are things I never uttered a word about when I was younger, I thought I had to endure whatever came with the job. Not so! If my manager is 10 years younger, as was the case with my most recent manager, that's just the way it is. We communicated well so we worked together well. Also we knew and respected each other's strengths. I don't know how my pay ranks with young developers with the same title and don't really care. Regards, Edward...
Thank you Edward :rose:
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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After just leaving MS... for greener grass, I find that what is most disconcerting is their lack of human interaction. Most of the people that I interacted with, (barring some exceptions to the rule of course) were just waiting for you to leave to get back to work and some hardly even pulled their eyes off their screen when you were talking with them...
wahoo
That's interesting, so that was the reason you left MS, as far as I know Google is the best environment to work at, am I right? Regards
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Chris Austin wrote:
Coding is a cakewalk compared to paving rodes
Or even spelling correctly. :)
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
Cool ! :laugh:
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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That's interesting, so that was the reason you left MS, as far as I know Google is the best environment to work at, am I right? Regards
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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If you want to keep a job, all us young folks need to right convoluted code in obscure languages. That way when we are 50 we will get jobs maintaining the legacy code say at $100/hr in todays dollars.
deltalmg wrote:
If you want to keep a job, all us young folks need to right convoluted code in obscure languages. That way when we are 50 we will get jobs maintaining the legacy code say at $100/hr in todays dollars
Its called job security? Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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I'm heading toward 50 and still coding.....The big difference now is that most of the easier coding goes to the less-experienced developers. I end up tackling the tough and extremely complex problems, run more peer code reviews and handle more systems design and architecture. When something doesn't work, I'm the "Go-to" guy....and that's a good thing!
It doesn't matter what profession your in if your good you become a trouble shooter. Been there, done that and got a T-Shirt! Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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I am 52 and have been programming for just short of 40 years. I started in high school, and that was WAY before high schoolers were doing programming. I have spent most of my life/career on mainframes, gradually moving over to MS (VB, VB.NET, C#, etc.) starting about 4-5 years ago, partly because of learning something new, partly because I was pretty sure there weren't going to be any more jobs in the mainframe arena. I do have a lot of enthusiasm - the reason why I was hired where I am now - not for what I knew or did, but because I was willing to learn and tackle a miriad of projects. The biggest problem IS my age - all the people are hiring are younger than my children; and I KNOW that for a number of openings, it was blatant age discrimination. Also, w/ the youngsters, there seems to be a big thing about terminology - though I had worked w/ SQL, I couldn't remember the formal definition of Inner vs. Outer join - and that was the reason I was given as not being hired. So, stick in there - you're right, it IS in our genes - but expect to be discriminated against, laughed at, and ignored.
I've been over comming that all my life, but recently its age! I agree they just don't want to hire us old farts. Look at all the experience they are missing out on! I look at it this way...its there lose!~ Mike P.S. Then you remember punch cards. :) Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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Why does this post always come from young coders? Is there something that makes them uneasy about the future of programming? I was told in 1980, that in the near future programming would be unnecessary. That prof is probably dead now.:)
There always gonna need a grunt to do the dirty work! Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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Kareem Shaker wrote:
I think you've started to enjoy it because it's less than before, as you're leading now
:-D May be correct. But what I think is now I am having some better understanding of the technology and the domain, so I like to play with all those. :)
Apurva Kaushal
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
I am 57 years old and I want to keep on coding because that's what I love to do. I have been a contract C++ developer since 1992. Right now I am fixing Entourage bugs for Microsoft on the MAC. I have friends who are still contracting in their sixties. Raj
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That's great Jim, I would like to know if you are coding just for coding, or you are a member in a development team?
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
The journey with computer of more than 45 years must be very interesting.
Jwalant Soneji (BE IT) Mobile: +91 9969059127 http://jnsoneji.spaces.live.com http://jnsoneji.blogspot.com
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
It all depends on individual. In Government Jobs, there is no promotion like Project Manager .If you start as developer you have to end as Developer.
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Kareem Shaker wrote:
and if you are somehow old, let's say 35
Hey, don't discriminate us old people! You'll be one of us in about 5 years...
Regards, mav -- Black holes are the places where God divided by 0...
I'm another "older" programmer. I started programming when I was 16...in 1964. Obviously, personality plays a part, but I think part of whether you stick with it or not is bound to why you started in the first place. I became fascinated with computers, and this fascination was enabled by the UCLA Computer Club, which allowed me 3 minutes a night on a 7094. I didn't do it for money, or because it was a "good career choice". Along the way I've done other things...mostly technology management. I've tried other hobbies. I've even fought the urge to program, because other people don't consider it a "suitable" hobby. But then I thought: no one asked Picasso when he was going to retire; no one told Picasso he was spending too much time painting. I view computer programming the same way. For some reason, not of my choosing, I care about the program. At the end of the day, when I want to do something after work, I often program something. Right now I'm trying to automate IE7 with a BHO (the codeproject was VERY useful!).
Lawrence Lewis