Developer's Age !
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Kareem, My son is a manager for a company that creates military hardware and software. My grandson is a manager of a call center for a software company. My great-grandson uses his computer to play games. I just write code. Been doing it since 1962. Plan to keep on doing it. I'm 74. JimT
That's great Jim, I would like to know if you are coding just for coding, or you are a member in a development team?
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Mmmm you are right, just because someone is promoted to management does not mean they are worthly of the position. But then again, your view of a manager is more one sided since you don't really understand the managers role until you have been there. I once was a manager, it was fun til I was downsized. Then I was in trouble because my skills where not sharp enough to compete in an overcrowded market. It took a while to get back into the main stream. Managers need reliability. That is why most young guys don't get management jobs right off the bat. For a manager, stability, understanding your environment, and the organizational politics is more important than technical savvy. I must ask you a question... Do you program for technologies sake, or do you program to solve a problem? A wise programmer understands the problem and the impact of change before he develops the solution.
Scott McFadden wrote:
I must ask you a question... Do you program for technologies sake, or do you program to solve a problem?
Thanks Scott:), I am not just a developer, I am more aligned to architecture, simply my answer is : "I program to solve the problem in context of the target technologies I am using for the solution" the goal is much more important to me than the problem itself. Enjoyed speaking to you!
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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The best answer is, what I do is no different from what every other programmer does. I just happen to be on the high end of the age scale. As far as what other people make, I don't worry much about that.
codewizard
Thank you Wayne.
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Imagine how much better the company could be, and the more mature it's products, when the average age is upped with a little wisdom of Life XP ;) Arjan Keene (four times eleven) -- modified at 13:21 Monday 16th July, 2007
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Nope. Also 36, and I find that this is around the age when people actually start to give you some respect as a developer. Before it was just "ooh a young Hot Shot - what are they going to screw up today?" With age comes experience, and everyone knows that. It is a matter of preference though... I don't really want to be making web pages in 20 years. I'm considering teaching, and I am starting my own company right now. If I can retire with a solid company making me income and maybe a part-time teaching gig... that will be really cool... and I have 20-30 years to make that happen.
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for freeware tools and articles. -
Thanks Jim, I think this is the cost of being a programmer, I am also eager to know if you get the same pay as younger programmers having the designation? BTW, I started to read your blog:)
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Kareem, thanks for going to my blog. I am still pretty obscure. Most of my work in the last 10 years has been either putting out fires or implementing something that requires a wide range of technologies, old and new. I haven’t worked much in a team environment recently. I think I am usually paid on the higher end but once the situation is in control I get cut. I have been guilty of sitting back and letting work come to me. In the earlier days I was getting the chance to create new innovative applications, but that is just not happening now. I am hoping to break out of that cycle and I’m trying to use blogging as my vehicle. The interesting thing is that I have always enjoyed mentoring young energetic newcomers. I am thinking of them when I develop my posts. Jim Freer http://freerpad.blogspot.com/
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Kareem, thanks for going to my blog. I am still pretty obscure. Most of my work in the last 10 years has been either putting out fires or implementing something that requires a wide range of technologies, old and new. I haven’t worked much in a team environment recently. I think I am usually paid on the higher end but once the situation is in control I get cut. I have been guilty of sitting back and letting work come to me. In the earlier days I was getting the chance to create new innovative applications, but that is just not happening now. I am hoping to break out of that cycle and I’m trying to use blogging as my vehicle. The interesting thing is that I have always enjoyed mentoring young energetic newcomers. I am thinking of them when I develop my posts. Jim Freer http://freerpad.blogspot.com/
JimHFreer wrote:
I have been guilty of sitting back and letting work come to me. In the earlier days I was getting the chance to create new innovative applications, but that is just not happening now
I hope you the best of all :), it's my pleasure speaking to you :rose:
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Hello Edward, That's interesting, thank you so much for these lines, also I would like to know about how do you cope with bad management, and what if your manager is 10 years younger than you, also do you get the same pay as young developers having the same designation? Thanks alot :)
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Hi Kareem, I cope with bad management by speaking up, for example, when requirements are vague or deadlines unreasonable. These are things I never uttered a word about when I was younger, I thought I had to endure whatever came with the job. Not so! If my manager is 10 years younger, as was the case with my most recent manager, that's just the way it is. We communicated well so we worked together well. Also we knew and respected each other's strengths. I don't know how my pay ranks with young developers with the same title and don't really care. Regards, Edward...
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Imagine how much better the company could be, and the more mature it's products, when the average age is upped with a little wisdom of Life XP ;) Arjan Keene (four times eleven) -- modified at 13:21 Monday 16th July, 2007
After just leaving MS... for greener grass, I find that what is most disconcerting is their lack of human interaction. Most of the people that I interacted with, (barring some exceptions to the rule of course) were just waiting for you to leave to get back to work and some hardly even pulled their eyes off their screen when you were talking with them...
wahoo
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
Kareem Shaker wrote:
I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s
And? This is a surprise? what? 25 years of experience is rubbish simply because you topped 40? I still invent new algorithms at 42. I still program, I invented a few things they teach at school. So just because I am 42 I am somehow too old to do programming? :rolleyes: Age is ultimately irrelevant, its the side-effects of age that matter, and that is individualized. Whether young or old, it is what you do with your education and experience. Age neither makes you a genius, nor does youth. Can a PhD match work experience? that depends on both the PhD owner and the guy with experience. There are no absolutes here. No positive indication that a person is too old to program, nor too young (per se, there are limits by fundamental growth of the human nerveous system, even including child-geniuses, there are limits there too). Ultimately it is all up to you and what you do with the talents you have. That is irrespective of age. I am neither small, nor big. I simply am. I do the job that needs to be done, and I do it again when it needs to be done again. If something hasn't been done, I do it, if something needs to be done better, I do it.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Hello, Just wanted to know if there are people out there willing to complete their lives in programming, in other words, how do you plan your career vs. your age, I have seen developers aged at 40s and 50s, do you think that the one should quit development at a certain age and shift to technical consultations or project management, and if you are old, and still into code, does this make you small or big ( I think it varies from one country to another ) ? Please share your experience here !
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
I'm a 14 year old C/C++ programmer :p I've been doing that for about a year to two years and have programming PHP since I was about 11 and Javascript since I was about 9 lol :) --PerspX
"Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine." - Bill Gates
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Hi Kareem, I cope with bad management by speaking up, for example, when requirements are vague or deadlines unreasonable. These are things I never uttered a word about when I was younger, I thought I had to endure whatever came with the job. Not so! If my manager is 10 years younger, as was the case with my most recent manager, that's just the way it is. We communicated well so we worked together well. Also we knew and respected each other's strengths. I don't know how my pay ranks with young developers with the same title and don't really care. Regards, Edward...
Thank you Edward :rose:
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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After just leaving MS... for greener grass, I find that what is most disconcerting is their lack of human interaction. Most of the people that I interacted with, (barring some exceptions to the rule of course) were just waiting for you to leave to get back to work and some hardly even pulled their eyes off their screen when you were talking with them...
wahoo
That's interesting, so that was the reason you left MS, as far as I know Google is the best environment to work at, am I right? Regards
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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Chris Austin wrote:
Coding is a cakewalk compared to paving rodes
Or even spelling correctly. :)
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
Cool ! :laugh:
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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That's interesting, so that was the reason you left MS, as far as I know Google is the best environment to work at, am I right? Regards
Kareem Shaker http://cairocafe.blogspot.com
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If you want to keep a job, all us young folks need to right convoluted code in obscure languages. That way when we are 50 we will get jobs maintaining the legacy code say at $100/hr in todays dollars.
deltalmg wrote:
If you want to keep a job, all us young folks need to right convoluted code in obscure languages. That way when we are 50 we will get jobs maintaining the legacy code say at $100/hr in todays dollars
Its called job security? Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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I'm heading toward 50 and still coding.....The big difference now is that most of the easier coding goes to the less-experienced developers. I end up tackling the tough and extremely complex problems, run more peer code reviews and handle more systems design and architecture. When something doesn't work, I'm the "Go-to" guy....and that's a good thing!
It doesn't matter what profession your in if your good you become a trouble shooter. Been there, done that and got a T-Shirt! Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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I am 52 and have been programming for just short of 40 years. I started in high school, and that was WAY before high schoolers were doing programming. I have spent most of my life/career on mainframes, gradually moving over to MS (VB, VB.NET, C#, etc.) starting about 4-5 years ago, partly because of learning something new, partly because I was pretty sure there weren't going to be any more jobs in the mainframe arena. I do have a lot of enthusiasm - the reason why I was hired where I am now - not for what I knew or did, but because I was willing to learn and tackle a miriad of projects. The biggest problem IS my age - all the people are hiring are younger than my children; and I KNOW that for a number of openings, it was blatant age discrimination. Also, w/ the youngsters, there seems to be a big thing about terminology - though I had worked w/ SQL, I couldn't remember the formal definition of Inner vs. Outer join - and that was the reason I was given as not being hired. So, stick in there - you're right, it IS in our genes - but expect to be discriminated against, laughed at, and ignored.
I've been over comming that all my life, but recently its age! I agree they just don't want to hire us old farts. Look at all the experience they are missing out on! I look at it this way...its there lose!~ Mike P.S. Then you remember punch cards. :) Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"
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Why does this post always come from young coders? Is there something that makes them uneasy about the future of programming? I was told in 1980, that in the near future programming would be unnecessary. That prof is probably dead now.:)
There always gonna need a grunt to do the dirty work! Mike
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. "George Carlin"