Changes to the message boards [modified]
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I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Wow the cries of the Loungers have woken up the Lord! The cries were so loud that you ought to. Well done Chris! :beer: Pepol, Now listen, Chris would be going nuts over the "validation" he has to do now. Like..
If( isMeesageASpam(msg)||(isTroll,...||(Poster.status <=Silver)||(poster.totalVotesCastedToday>=..)||(poster.MessageCountToday>=...)||(poster.status!=Platinum)&& (!isPosterLookingLikeKyle_satip_vasud(poster))||...HasPosterBeenKickedOnAssBefore(poster) and upto **poster.ass.hole.size() <=...**:wtf:.*** too much for anyone. So stop throwing suggestions now. Let's accept what he has done for the moment. Later you may post these in the suggestion forum one by one and bug him ;P. Now let him go out and see the sun shine..(that's the reward for you Chris. :-D):beer:
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Yup! you could have termed this update that way. Well done Chris, if you had implemented this a while before we could have averted a civil war here. OMG! the pages looked so darned with the noise level.. anyway you are right on time fixing the electrical bug on the barbed wires of the Lounge :-D. :jig: Wishes!
Exactly critical.It's literally a "patch" on the arse of some people who were suffering from Loose-Messaging..
:beer:
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I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I a quite comfortable with all the proposed changes except perhaps item 2. I have been a member since 2002 and follow the contents of the Lounge (almost religiously) every day but I seldom comment in the lounge unless I feel I have something constructive to add (or just plain bored out of my skull.. which thankfully seldom happens). My concern (perhaps unfounded) would be me receiving a poor ranking just because I am not post happy... Then of course it bring up the point as to how relevant I am to the health of the Lounge if I am seldom active in the dicussions...hmm... In either case I would prefer that CodeProject err on the side of someone being a good citizen until proven otherwise (or at least grandfathering some of the older but quiet members). :) cheers, David
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I don't think capping the post count would make much difference, quite frankly. As others have said, giving Platinum members the "kick" privilege (preferably into a "sin bin" for an escalating time period rather than for good. You could sell tickets to watch them sulking while they were in there) has real potential. Something does need to be done about the membership rating system though. The fact that a member can reach Gold just by hanging around and barely posting is testament to that. One of the things I've found works amazingly well on Yahoo Groups is the ability to selectively moderate posts by new members, or those who have been "stirring it a bit". On TS-UK we operate a default policy of keeping new members under moderation until they have a) posted more than 5 messages and b) been a posting member for at least a month. A similar policy in the Lounge could definitely work even here, as casual members rarely post anywhere other than the message boards associated with articles. I'd expect the number of messages which would come through for moderation in the Lounge would be far lower than you would expect. That more than anything else is what we find keeps the lid on things there. Very few messages get rejected, and very few members are on long term moderation.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
You could sell tickets to watch them sulking while they were in there) has real potential.
public humiliation is sometimes good, sometimes encouragement for revenge.... :(
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
On TS-UK we operate a default policy of keeping new members under moderation until they have
There was a board I visited a few years back that operated similar activities using message count. A person started with -10 messages (this was because he found 0-10 exception more difficult to write than <0 -- he was not a programmer first), and you were in probation until you reached 0. A probationary member could not post in off-topics areas, and could post one (or maybe two) posts a day. If you messed up and had a post removed, your message count was subtracted by 10 for each report. The usually meant you had to stay on probation longer. At worst it meant you had to have 10 good messages for every bad one to break even.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Go for it. I especially like the idea of one's rank being dependent not only on the number posts, but wieghted somehow by answers in the coding forums. Also, I wonder whether voting should be made a "public" matter. You vote, people knwo it's you, and what you've voted. Why not? This isn't a genreal election, but a public forum and as ina public meeting, if you stick your hand up, everyone can see you doing it. cheers fred
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I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
There have been a lot of comments to Chris' changes and suggestions. I'm creating this post to try and summarize them (more for my benefit, but I think it will help see the general feelings towards each of the changes.
- I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam
There really weren't (m)any comments to this one, so I'm guessing that no one has any problems with it.
- Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam
It seems that the general consensus is that this should be changed to Gold members and above. There is a concern that poorly rated articles will count towards the ranking. [I'm not sure this should actually matter. With the other changes in place for the voting and the ranking, I think this would work itself out.]
- Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day
Again, there didn't seem to be much on this one. There did seem to be some confusion that this was capping the number of posts per day, but as far as I can tell, it is only limiting the number of votes per day. The IP address is already restricted to 1 vote per article, and this would add a x votes per minute and y votes per day from the same IP address.
- Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages"
This one didn't seem to go over very well. The general feeling was that this change wouldn't really have any value, particularly with the other changes in place.
1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members.
Just how abused would this be?This one generated a lot of feedback, with a lot of different options. 1. Treat it as a vote, and with enough votes the person is banned/removed from the site. The general feeling with this is that the person kicked should be placed on a temporary ban that is reset after a specified period of time. The length of each ban is additive, and the more times a person is banned the longer the ban lasts. After a certain number of bans, they are removed from the site. The ban would prevent them from posting articles or posts for the duration of the ban. 2. Instead of banning/removing the person from the site, hide their posts from everyone else logged in. With the posts hidden, there would be no replies (or at least no new replies). 3. Having a "up vote/down vote". Not much detail on this one, but I thi
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I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I'm not sure how option 1 will work out. You will have to implement option 2 also, otherwise there are too many people with the "wrong" rating kicking people out. I don't want that to happen, because it scares people away who are just here to ask questions and have a good time. Option 2 is great, but I think you should make a bit of a split here, make someone gold when he gets good scores on the boards. Because people will get voted up when their comments are either fun, insightfull or otherwise good to have. On the other hand, there should also be a good score for people posting articles that are useful. In my opinion, option 1 and 2 have to be implemented together or not at all, the one can't live without the other.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction? "What? Its an Apple MacBook Pro. They are sexy!" - Paul Watson My blog
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There have been a lot of comments to Chris' changes and suggestions. I'm creating this post to try and summarize them (more for my benefit, but I think it will help see the general feelings towards each of the changes.
- I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam
There really weren't (m)any comments to this one, so I'm guessing that no one has any problems with it.
- Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam
It seems that the general consensus is that this should be changed to Gold members and above. There is a concern that poorly rated articles will count towards the ranking. [I'm not sure this should actually matter. With the other changes in place for the voting and the ranking, I think this would work itself out.]
- Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day
Again, there didn't seem to be much on this one. There did seem to be some confusion that this was capping the number of posts per day, but as far as I can tell, it is only limiting the number of votes per day. The IP address is already restricted to 1 vote per article, and this would add a x votes per minute and y votes per day from the same IP address.
- Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages"
This one didn't seem to go over very well. The general feeling was that this change wouldn't really have any value, particularly with the other changes in place.
1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members.
Just how abused would this be?This one generated a lot of feedback, with a lot of different options. 1. Treat it as a vote, and with enough votes the person is banned/removed from the site. The general feeling with this is that the person kicked should be placed on a temporary ban that is reset after a specified period of time. The length of each ban is additive, and the more times a person is banned the longer the ban lasts. After a certain number of bans, they are removed from the site. The ban would prevent them from posting articles or posts for the duration of the ban. 2. Instead of banning/removing the person from the site, hide their posts from everyone else logged in. With the posts hidden, there would be no replies (or at least no new replies). 3. Having a "up vote/down vote". Not much detail on this one, but I thi
Scott Dorman wrote:
1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members.Just how abused would this be? This one generated a lot of feedback, with a lot of different options. 1. Treat it as a vote, and with enough votes the person is banned/removed from the site. The general feeling with this is that the person kicked should be placed on a temporary ban that is reset after a specified period of time. The length of each ban is additive, and the more times a person is banned the longer the ban lasts. After a certain number of bans, they are removed from the site. The ban would prevent them from posting articles or posts for the duration of the ban.
Hey, that's a good idea. I was thinking something like that, but I couldn't write it down like that.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction? "What? Its an Apple MacBook Pro. They are sexy!" - Paul Watson My blog
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I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around.
Really Chris, you don't need to compensate me in any way... :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam
I think it should be gold/higher.
Chris Maunder wrote:
Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages"
Damn - and I was almost to 10,000. :/
Chris Maunder wrote:
I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be?
- The only people that should be able to "kick from the lounge" are gold/higher members that are also current CP VIPs. 2) Platinum members should not be kickable from anything except by site admins.
Chris Maunder wrote:
I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down.
I'm not so sure this is a good idea. Essentially, I could post 1000 articles, and get hammered on my forum posts to the point where I'd just be a silver. That's not conducive to making me want to post more articles OR participate in the forums, and is actually punishing me despite my tangible contributions (in the form of real programmer stuff, ie articles) to the site.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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I'm getting as tired as everyone else of the crap that is going on so I'm proposing the following changes: - I've increased the threshold for messages to disappear if marked as spam - Only silver and above members can mark messages as spam - Your IP address can only vote a limited number of times a minute and also a limited number of times a day - Once you hit 5,000 messages then your profile will simply say "over 5,000 messages" Two more thoughts: 1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be? 2. I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster. If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status; same with your posted articles. You post rubbish and you go down. The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around. The ones who have interesting stories, incitefulinsightful comments, are great moderators of the mood, and whose participation makes CodeProject what it is. Suggestions? -- modified at 10:20 Wednesday 18th July, 2007
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
great ideas , Here are some of my suggestions If there can ALSO be an option to - BLOCK this USER (and all the comment) from MY VIEW (TODAY) - IGNORE (BLOCK FOR VIEW) THE USER ALWAYS - OR EVEN BETTER ALLOW THIS USER FOR VIEW and View only users you want , Like ALLOW ONLY ALL GOLD USERS ALLOW ONLY ALL PLATINUM USERS ALLOW USERS WHO ARE HERE FOR MORE THAN 3 YEARS ALLOW MY FAVORITE USERS you can always select "VIEW ALL USERS" That will automatically filter the lounge , what every body wants to see and not see. I think in the middle of all the houch-pouch we can still experience the old classic lounge with nish and marc and dunn and chris and colin and shog9 and ramakrishna ( the list just goes on for me...) all those guys i love to hear from ..... Giving this permission to Gold or platinum members will also be good. Thanks for considering these options !
Omit Needless Words - Strunk, William, Jr.
Vista? Photoshop Preview Handler
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After seeing what happened with deleting messages you think people are mature enough to handle a feature to ban people. :laugh:
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
string name = "" wrote:
After seeing what happened with deleting messages you think people are mature enough to handle a feature to ban people.
You can be banned for saying things like that! :-D
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Chris Maunder wrote:
The only problem with this is how we reward those members who are simply great to have around.
Really Chris, you don't need to compensate me in any way... :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I think letting you retain your account is compensation enough! :laugh:
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007 -
Chris Maunder wrote:
1. I'm tempted to add a "Kick this person out of the lounge" button. It would only be accessible by Gold and above members. Just how abused would this be?
Bye, bye, John Simmons... :-D
I see dead pixels Yes, even I am blogging now!
I suggested a rule that platinum members can't be kicked except by site admin (Chris). You don't want to kick out your best site contributers. This was meant for Dan Turini, but the CP forum code is broken again.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Daniel Turini wrote:
Bye, bye, John Simmons...
I've learned to understand him. He's a legend in my opinion. :-D
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Blog - My Photos - ScrewTurn Wiki
Ahhhh, another devoted follower. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Right now I want to kick him out of the Vista forum where he's doing more harm than good.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
I can't hurt Vista anymore than Microsoft already has.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Chris Maunder wrote:
I will be replacing the Silver/Gold etc ranking with a ranking based on your participation as an author and as a poster.
I like this idea. No more Gold because you've posted once and remembered your password three years later.
Chris Maunder wrote:
If you answer questions in the forums that are well received you increase your status
The problem with that is that in the current climate a lot of excellent posts in the programming forum are being shot down by the univoter. I've been shot down, Vikram's been shot down, Pete's been shot down - all for no valid reason. I would prefer a voting system that is based on "Click if this answer was useful" style of thing. That way people cannot vote down indiscriminately.
Upcoming events: * Glasgow: Mock Objects, SQL Server CLR Integration, Reporting Services, db4o, Dependency Injection with Spring ... "I wouldn't say boo to a goose. I'm not a coward, I just realise that it would be largely pointless." My website
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I've been shot down, Vikram's been shot down, Pete's been shot down
Santips has been shot down. :sigh:
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
all for no valid reason
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
*blush*
Rob Manderson My bloghttp://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
Careful not to get too close Rob, with flattery like that Colin might just try and cop a feel :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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I think letting you retain your account is compensation enough! :laugh:
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007I provide a valuable service to CP (and you might find that Chris agrees). :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001