Money vs. Flexibility
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This probably reflects my age (I turn
0x2Etoday :-O), but quality of life is a lot more important. That means my work environment gets a lot more attention than pay rate. Frankly, the job market being what it is for geezers like me, pay is probably the least of my worries. Regardless of where I apply, they're going to offer me the same amount of money, as I've been at the top of the pay scale in my local job market for ten years. In order of importance, my work environment features: - Flex-time: I choose the hours I work (6:30am to 4:30pm; yes, it's a ten hour day, but you'll see why next). - Our facility includes a fitness room with lockers/showers, and is in the center of a number of running routes ranging from 3 miles to 8 miles. I typically take 90 to 120 minutes for lunch to run or work out. - Telecommuting. If I need to leave early to take the wife/kid to the doctor, I can work from home in the evening to make up the time. If the weather's bad, I can work from home. - Casual dress for me means blue jeans, polo shirt, and casual shoes. Plenty of folks wear T-shirts (we build ink jet printers, which can get messy). The only time I've worn a tie in the 17 years I've been here has been on customer visits and when they took pictures for my business cards. Those are more important to me than the benefits and compensation. For all practical purposes, there aren't significant differences between pay packages, insurance, vacation, etc. once you've been doing this for 15 years or more. If I wanted more money, I would move into management. Of course, I hope somebody shoots me first.
Software Zen:
delete this;You should increase the base you use to represent your age every two years. Not only will this identify you as the geek you are, but you'll always be 20 or 21 :-D Welcome to the big [23]20
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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You should increase the base you use to represent your age every two years. Not only will this identify you as the geek you are, but you'll always be 20 or 21 :-D Welcome to the big [23]20
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
MidwestLimey wrote:
Welcome to the big [23]20
Thanks :laugh:.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
What's more important to you, in terms of your job, making a lot of money or having a flexible/casual work environment? Of course, both is best, but let's say you had to pick one. I know some people who don't care about working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money. On the other hand, I know other people who are willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom. Thoughts? Opinions? Rants? Raves?!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
I'd go for the casual job every time. I've worked in places where tie is mandatory, you're in trouble if you are two (yes, just two) minutes late, you can't listen to music, and all the other corporate crap. My current place is extremely cool, to the point of being ridiculous. :cool: For example, dress code at the moment (summer) is shorts and t-shirt. About the only rules are general cleanliness and no spagetti straps or wife-beater type things. Heck, I've seen people here in pajama bottoms. I shave about once a week, when I remember. So long as you put in 8 hours a day, you can come in and leave whenever you like. Every single employee (50 of us) has a key to the door and combination for the security system, so you can work whenever you need to, without worrying if someone in authority will be present to lock/unlock for you. So, I come in at 7:00 and I'm out at 3:30 in the afternoon. :cool: I bring my laptop to work every day, and hook it up to the company network - no questions asked. I listen to streaming internet radio all day and occasionally chat with my wife on MSN Messenger. I can work at home if necessary, but I rarely do so. Vacation time is a bit short (no paid vacation for the first year of employment), but when you actually want to go to work, it doesn't really matter. Compared to some places I've worked, this place is awesome. I could earn 3 times as much by moving 200 miles north to Silicon Valley, but I just couldn't stand it up there...
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
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What's more important to you, in terms of your job, making a lot of money or having a flexible/casual work environment? Of course, both is best, but let's say you had to pick one. I know some people who don't care about working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money. On the other hand, I know other people who are willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom. Thoughts? Opinions? Rants? Raves?!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
I've chosen working from home. ;P
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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What's more important to you, in terms of your job, making a lot of money or having a flexible/casual work environment? Of course, both is best, but let's say you had to pick one. I know some people who don't care about working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money. On the other hand, I know other people who are willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom. Thoughts? Opinions? Rants? Raves?!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
Josh Smith wrote:
working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money
When you are young, you are happy to work ridiculous hours and (hopefully) rake in the big bucks.
Josh Smith wrote:
willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom.
As I have gotten older, I have wanted more time to spend with my family/kids/friends. I look at it this way - when I am on my deathbed, will I look back and think "Man, I wish I had pulled that extra 4 hours per day on that project to get it delivered a day earlier than it was", or "Man, I wish I had spent more time with my kids". I already have a great deal of flexibility (and some would say remuneration, as everything I do is at an hourly rate), but I still find myself wanting more time for my kids and wife. Whoops, I seemed to have trailed off into melancholy... end of rant.
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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What's more important to you, in terms of your job, making a lot of money or having a flexible/casual work environment? Of course, both is best, but let's say you had to pick one. I know some people who don't care about working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money. On the other hand, I know other people who are willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom. Thoughts? Opinions? Rants? Raves?!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
Money doesn't mean squat if I'm unhappy or stressed out all day because of a sucky job.
--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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What's more important to you, in terms of your job, making a lot of money or having a flexible/casual work environment? Of course, both is best, but let's say you had to pick one. I know some people who don't care about working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money. On the other hand, I know other people who are willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom. Thoughts? Opinions? Rants? Raves?!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
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Josh Smith wrote:
make less money to gain more personal time and freedom.
I made this move in the past and was quite happy with the results. If I were to offer my thoughts it would be simple: Don't work somewhere where you aren't happy.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
I share the same thoughts as you too. But i had problem finding a job i like. I think its a culture thing here. Perhaps in software development world here, there is no such thing as less money, more personal time. :~
Weiye Chen A self proclaimed hermit living in a cave, with his PC connected to the world.
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What's more important to you, in terms of your job, making a lot of money or having a flexible/casual work environment? Of course, both is best, but let's say you had to pick one. I know some people who don't care about working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money. On the other hand, I know other people who are willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom. Thoughts? Opinions? Rants? Raves?!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
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What's more important to you, in terms of your job, making a lot of money or having a flexible/casual work environment? Of course, both is best, but let's say you had to pick one. I know some people who don't care about working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money. On the other hand, I know other people who are willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom. Thoughts? Opinions? Rants? Raves?!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
As others have said, I think it has to be balanced. A little worse environment for much more money, I'll probably take it. A little less money for much better environment, I'll take it. Much less money, probably I won't since I have some needs to fulfill. But, I run my own business, so I can do whatever I want :) Seriously, with the guys that work with me, I am quite flexible with the time. As long as they complete they work and bill their hours, they can skip an afternoon or get our earlier. I am very flexible and I think it has worked very well.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
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What's more important to you, in terms of your job, making a lot of money or having a flexible/casual work environment? Of course, both is best, but let's say you had to pick one. I know some people who don't care about working endlessly in a high-pressure job because they make a ton of money. On the other hand, I know other people who are willing to make less money to gain more personal time and freedom. Thoughts? Opinions? Rants? Raves?!
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
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I share the same thoughts as you too. But i had problem finding a job i like. I think its a culture thing here. Perhaps in software development world here, there is no such thing as less money, more personal time. :~
Weiye Chen A self proclaimed hermit living in a cave, with his PC connected to the world.
Weiye Chen wrote:
But i had problem finding a job i like.
So did I. In fact it was really hard for me as well. I even got depressed about it and my enjoyment of the craft suffered. But, I did eventually find an organization that was a fit for me. However, it was pretty ironical that just about three years after finding the right fit, I left the company to become a consultant and stay at home with my son. I can't say I've ever been more satisfied or motivated:) Life is pretty cool like that sometimes. Here is some unsolicited and sappy advice. Just keep that ideal situation in the back of your mind and I am sure you will find a way.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
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I'd go for the casual job every time. I've worked in places where tie is mandatory, you're in trouble if you are two (yes, just two) minutes late, you can't listen to music, and all the other corporate crap. My current place is extremely cool, to the point of being ridiculous. :cool: For example, dress code at the moment (summer) is shorts and t-shirt. About the only rules are general cleanliness and no spagetti straps or wife-beater type things. Heck, I've seen people here in pajama bottoms. I shave about once a week, when I remember. So long as you put in 8 hours a day, you can come in and leave whenever you like. Every single employee (50 of us) has a key to the door and combination for the security system, so you can work whenever you need to, without worrying if someone in authority will be present to lock/unlock for you. So, I come in at 7:00 and I'm out at 3:30 in the afternoon. :cool: I bring my laptop to work every day, and hook it up to the company network - no questions asked. I listen to streaming internet radio all day and occasionally chat with my wife on MSN Messenger. I can work at home if necessary, but I rarely do so. Vacation time is a bit short (no paid vacation for the first year of employment), but when you actually want to go to work, it doesn't really matter. Compared to some places I've worked, this place is awesome. I could earn 3 times as much by moving 200 miles north to Silicon Valley, but I just couldn't stand it up there...
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
I agree, the place I work is nice. The dress code (right now for summer) is shorts & a shirt (like Miszou no spaghetti straps, wife beaters and such), now during the winter it is business casual but I can deal with that. Vacation (to start) is 8 hours a month available after the first 6 months, they only give 4 hours sick time a month but I can live with that (and both can roll over year to year, hell I know a guy there who now has 15 weeks vacation time). The pay is decent (it's at least in the top 40% for this side of the state) but at work I can listen to music, they buy IT kick a** equipment to work with (Intel Duo Core Processor (2), 4 GB memory, 2 250 GB drives, ATI X1900 video cards, 2 22 inch monitors), hell they even paid to get a couple of us our MCSD & MCAD .Net certifications. A company would have to have one hell of a package to get me to leave where I'm at now. [ EDIT ] As long as you put in your 8 hours they don't care (you can even do part of it from home. When I went in for surgery 3 weeks the company took a donation from everyone of vacation time so I wouldn't lose any pay while I was recovering [ /EDIT ]
"Okay, I give up: which is NOT a real programming language????" Michael Bergman
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I agree, the place I work is nice. The dress code (right now for summer) is shorts & a shirt (like Miszou no spaghetti straps, wife beaters and such), now during the winter it is business casual but I can deal with that. Vacation (to start) is 8 hours a month available after the first 6 months, they only give 4 hours sick time a month but I can live with that (and both can roll over year to year, hell I know a guy there who now has 15 weeks vacation time). The pay is decent (it's at least in the top 40% for this side of the state) but at work I can listen to music, they buy IT kick a** equipment to work with (Intel Duo Core Processor (2), 4 GB memory, 2 250 GB drives, ATI X1900 video cards, 2 22 inch monitors), hell they even paid to get a couple of us our MCSD & MCAD .Net certifications. A company would have to have one hell of a package to get me to leave where I'm at now. [ EDIT ] As long as you put in your 8 hours they don't care (you can even do part of it from home. When I went in for surgery 3 weeks the company took a donation from everyone of vacation time so I wouldn't lose any pay while I was recovering [ /EDIT ]
"Okay, I give up: which is NOT a real programming language????" Michael Bergman
Psycho-*Coder*-Extreme wrote:
wife beaters and such
What's a wife beater? Is that slang for a pair of thongs?
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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I'd go for the casual job every time. I've worked in places where tie is mandatory, you're in trouble if you are two (yes, just two) minutes late, you can't listen to music, and all the other corporate crap. My current place is extremely cool, to the point of being ridiculous. :cool: For example, dress code at the moment (summer) is shorts and t-shirt. About the only rules are general cleanliness and no spagetti straps or wife-beater type things. Heck, I've seen people here in pajama bottoms. I shave about once a week, when I remember. So long as you put in 8 hours a day, you can come in and leave whenever you like. Every single employee (50 of us) has a key to the door and combination for the security system, so you can work whenever you need to, without worrying if someone in authority will be present to lock/unlock for you. So, I come in at 7:00 and I'm out at 3:30 in the afternoon. :cool: I bring my laptop to work every day, and hook it up to the company network - no questions asked. I listen to streaming internet radio all day and occasionally chat with my wife on MSN Messenger. I can work at home if necessary, but I rarely do so. Vacation time is a bit short (no paid vacation for the first year of employment), but when you actually want to go to work, it doesn't really matter. Compared to some places I've worked, this place is awesome. I could earn 3 times as much by moving 200 miles north to Silicon Valley, but I just couldn't stand it up there...
Sunrise Wallpaper Project | The StartPage Randomizer | A Random Web Page
Miszou wrote:
Heck, I've seen people here in pajama bottoms. I shave about once a week, when I remember.
Man, that's pretty laid back work place :-D
"Any sort of work in VB6 is bound to provide several WTF moments." - Christian Graus
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Psycho-*Coder*-Extreme wrote:
wife beaters and such
What's a wife beater? Is that slang for a pair of thongs?
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
a wife beater[^] is slang for like a tank top type shirt
"Well yes, it is an Integer, but it's a metrosexual Integer. For all we know, under all that hair gel it could be a Boolean." Tom Welch
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Psycho-*Coder*-Extreme wrote:
wife beaters and such
What's a wife beater? Is that slang for a pair of thongs?
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
What's a wife beater?
It's like an egg beater[^] only much, much bigger.
:josh: My WPF Blog[^] The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it. - Michelangelo (1475-1564)
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Psycho-*Coder*-Extreme wrote:
wife beaters and such
What's a wife beater? Is that slang for a pair of thongs?
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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Thanks... yes I was serious... must be a localised slang - never heard it before in my life...
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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a wife beater[^] is slang for like a tank top type shirt
"Well yes, it is an Integer, but it's a metrosexual Integer. For all we know, under all that hair gel it could be a Boolean." Tom Welch
Thanks for that... never heard it before...
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!