Incredible
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You can't guess how passionate I've become about this. For him to refuse to have our own group that would be working on this ON OUR OWN TIME seems SO narrow minded and short sided to me.
Well, now you know not to mention any further endeavors you might be taking on your own to your CTO. :)
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I'm so p!ssed at the moment. Eft!
Does he know anything other than VB? I suspect you pushed a panic button for him--he's probably insecure about his own knowledge, and definitely insecure about his underlings knowing more than him. He might even have been questioned about his VB-only policy by one of his Cohorts (CEO, CFO, you know, any of those C-horts) and is now worried that a skunkworks operation is going to be heard about by someone else. I fully support what you're doing. I recently got quite interested in functional programming and should be getting that book on Erlang shortly, if though I doubt I'll ever use the language. Frankly though, you may want to find some folks outside of your immediate work environment for this group. I get the impression that this could turn into a nasty political situation if you keep pressing it within your local peer group. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Well, now you know not to mention any further endeavors you might be taking on your own to your CTO.
Too true!
Marc Clifton wrote:
Does he know anything other than VB?
Presumably pascal from his college days.
Marc Clifton wrote:
He might even have been questioned about his VB-only policy by one of his Cohorts
I doubt that because he's one of the founders of the company and its second biggest shareholder and the CEO (though I personally believe he is of a broader vision) is the same as well.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Erlang
Great language. I've been playing around with it for sometime before the hype that F# caused. My other functional language research is with prolog, more specifically visual-prolog. In the end, I can always count on fellow CPians to be my ultimate peer review :)
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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Well maybe no use for them. There is still a lot of applications written in C/C++ and will continue for quite some time. Most Operating Systems of today are still written in ASM/C/C++ as well as many device drivers. That said though, in typical data driven business applications today, C++ is really a legacy technology and few use it. Just take a look at the job market and you will find that C++ demand is flat out dying. I used C/C++ pretty much all the time for close to two decades, but once C#/.NET came out, I had no need for C++ again. Language wars will continue forever, but what really matters is that you get involved in a marketable language (one that has plenty of jobs) and master it. Not so important which one as long as it one of the popular ones. Learning or staying up with C++ is really of little value.
Rocky <>< Blog Post: ASP.NET MVC Part 1 Tech Blog Post: Cheap Biofuels and Synthetics coming soon?
Rocky Moore wrote:
Learning or staying up with C++ is really of little value
I do agree with on this but I feel that using/learning would be more on a personal basis rather than professional. I code in nothing but C#. However, I have to maintain legacy apps written in C++. Plus, I learned C++ in college and I don't think Colleges and Universities will be replacing C++ anytime soon.
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Thanks Marc. You can't guess how passionate I've become about this. For him to refuse to have our own group that would be working on this ON OUR OWN TIME seems SO narrow minded and short sided to me. Several times (before either one of the three I mentioned) joined the company, they had to freelance/outsource some C++ library development. Since it appears that the likelihood of this happening again is high enough, I would have expected he would have tried to set something up himself. I'm so p!ssed at the moment. Eft!
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
For him to refuse to have our own group that would be working on this ON OUR OWN TIME seems SO narrow minded and short sided to me.
That's crazy ! You do wathever it pleases you during your spare time. And it is even a bonus for him because you could be usefull in other situations. I don't understand his point :confused:. Maybe he understood that you wanted to do that during working hours ?
Cédric Moonen Software developer
Charting control [v1.2] -
Thanks Marc. You can't guess how passionate I've become about this. For him to refuse to have our own group that would be working on this ON OUR OWN TIME seems SO narrow minded and short sided to me. Several times (before either one of the three I mentioned) joined the company, they had to freelance/outsource some C++ library development. Since it appears that the likelihood of this happening again is high enough, I would have expected he would have tried to set something up himself. I'm so p!ssed at the moment. Eft!
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You can't guess how passionate I've become about this.
Don't let your personal feelings rule your level head here...it could affect your future employment. :| Rule #1: Boss is right...don't piss him off. Rule #2: If you don't like it...leave.
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People hate what they don't understand. Your boss probably doesn't understand C++, hence he hates it. Just tell him that all his software that he uses was most likely written in C++ and NOT VB.Net. :laugh:
S Smerk wrote:
People hate what they don't understand.
Is that why everyone here hates VB? :)
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You can't guess how passionate I've become about this.
Don't let your personal feelings rule your level head here...it could affect your future employment. :| Rule #1: Boss is right...don't piss him off. Rule #2: If you don't like it...leave.
S Smerk wrote:
Don't let your personal feelings rule your level head here
You're more than right. I'm definitely not going to be ranting to him about it. But between me, myself and I, I'll be fighting this like mad.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
For him to refuse to have our own group that would be working on this ON OUR OWN TIME seems SO narrow minded and short sided to me.
That's crazy ! You do wathever it pleases you during your spare time. And it is even a bonus for him because you could be usefull in other situations. I don't understand his point :confused:. Maybe he understood that you wanted to do that during working hours ?
Cédric Moonen Software developer
Charting control [v1.2]no no, I specifically told him that it'll be during our spare time. I tried to make him understand that we want him to be aware of what we're doing and planning on doing. He's just dead set against it.
Cedric Moonen wrote:
That's crazy !
No one can dispute facts!
Cedric Moonen wrote:
You do wathever it pleases you during your spare time.
Damn right! And that's what I'm planning on doing.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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General custom made software. Your typical three layered app(s). The purpose of the group was not to intrude on our working schedules, but rather for me and the other 2 guys (and whoever else thats interested) to try and maintain a sharp edge when it comes to C++ (specifically) development. And I had mentioned C# to him about 14 months ago when I first joined the company then. The answer was to similar lines but the context was different because I was talking about project development using C#, not something during my own time.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
If I were your boss, and you asked me for company support to use a language that we didn't use, and had no intention of using, would scream "I'm not happy here and want out, but need to brush my skills up on your time first"....perhaps that's his beef?
"Knock me down, I'll get straight back up again, I'll come back stronger than a powered up pacman" (Lilly Allen / Kaiser Chiefs)
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S Smerk wrote:
People hate what they don't understand.
Is that why everyone here hates VB? :)
I actually hate it because its been teaching me bad habits!
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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Why did you asked for his permission then? Were you planning doing this at the office or elsewhere? In any case, if it is after work, where is the need to tell your boss?
It wasn't really permission. It was more of a "we're keeping you in the loop" thing. Don't get me wrong, he's a really nice guy, but obviously he can be quite THICK. But that's my own biased opinion that is a result of disgust, astonishment and a prevalent sense of WTF?
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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If I were your boss, and you asked me for company support to use a language that we didn't use, and had no intention of using, would scream "I'm not happy here and want out, but need to brush my skills up on your time first"....perhaps that's his beef?
"Knock me down, I'll get straight back up again, I'll come back stronger than a powered up pacman" (Lilly Allen / Kaiser Chiefs)
But it wasn't on his time :( Heck, if the group formed we would have met every other Thursday work schedules permitting. :confused:
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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Thanks Marc. You can't guess how passionate I've become about this. For him to refuse to have our own group that would be working on this ON OUR OWN TIME seems SO narrow minded and short sided to me. Several times (before either one of the three I mentioned) joined the company, they had to freelance/outsource some C++ library development. Since it appears that the likelihood of this happening again is high enough, I would have expected he would have tried to set something up himself. I'm so p!ssed at the moment. Eft!
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
I can tell you from experience that you're fighting a losing battle. He's tasted the turd that is VB.Net, and he's grown to like the flavor.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
It wasn't really permission. It was more of a "we're keeping you in the loop" thing. Don't get me wrong, he's a really nice guy, but obviously he can be quite THICK. But that's my own biased opinion that is a result of disgust, astonishment and a prevalent sense of WTF?
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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I can tell you from experience that you're fighting a losing battle. He's tasted the turd that is VB.Net, and he's grown to like the flavor.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001:laugh::laugh::laugh:
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I code using VB.net for a living and honestly, I' try my absolute best to try and stay fit using other languages that are more C-Based. This is for my own benefit frankly as there isn't much reception for it here in the company, in fact, there are only two other guys here that have an interest almost equaling mine. With this in mind, I was talking to these guys about setting up some sort of group that tries to maintain C++ fitness. I actually went to talk to the CTO about it and he completely gunned it down. Not only did he refuse it out of hand, he proclaimed and I quote "No one here likes C++, in fact, there is no use for C++ anymore." :wtf::omg::mad: I can't believe it. Obviously I'll be carrying on with my own plans, but without the support and blessing of the Company. :suss:
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
With this in mind, I was talking to these guys about setting up some sort of group that tries to maintain C++ fitness. I actually went to talk to the CTO about it and he completely gunned it down. Not only did he refuse it out of hand, he proclaimed and I quote "No one here likes C++, in fact, there is no use for C++ anymore."
You could look for user groups in your local area.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Glasgow: SQL Server Managed Objects AND Reporting Services ... My website
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I can tell you from experience that you're fighting a losing battle. He's tasted the turd that is VB.Net, and he's grown to like the flavor.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001:laugh: That's a 5 :-D I believe what you're saying is right. I'll be taking Colin's advice to heart and to look for local groups here and if not see about setting one up with other developers who feel as strongly about this as I do.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
With this in mind, I was talking to these guys about setting up some sort of group that tries to maintain C++ fitness. I actually went to talk to the CTO about it and he completely gunned it down. Not only did he refuse it out of hand, he proclaimed and I quote "No one here likes C++, in fact, there is no use for C++ anymore."
You could look for user groups in your local area.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Glasgow: SQL Server Managed Objects AND Reporting Services ... My website
I'll definitely do that; And if I can't find any I'll look into setting one up.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
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Well maybe no use for them. There is still a lot of applications written in C/C++ and will continue for quite some time. Most Operating Systems of today are still written in ASM/C/C++ as well as many device drivers. That said though, in typical data driven business applications today, C++ is really a legacy technology and few use it. Just take a look at the job market and you will find that C++ demand is flat out dying. I used C/C++ pretty much all the time for close to two decades, but once C#/.NET came out, I had no need for C++ again. Language wars will continue forever, but what really matters is that you get involved in a marketable language (one that has plenty of jobs) and master it. Not so important which one as long as it one of the popular ones. Learning or staying up with C++ is really of little value.
Rocky <>< Blog Post: ASP.NET MVC Part 1 Tech Blog Post: Cheap Biofuels and Synthetics coming soon?
Rocky Moore wrote:
Just take a look at the job market and you will find that C++ demand is flat out dying.
I just did and saw that C++ demand is stronger than ever.
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Well maybe no use for them. There is still a lot of applications written in C/C++ and will continue for quite some time. Most Operating Systems of today are still written in ASM/C/C++ as well as many device drivers. That said though, in typical data driven business applications today, C++ is really a legacy technology and few use it. Just take a look at the job market and you will find that C++ demand is flat out dying. I used C/C++ pretty much all the time for close to two decades, but once C#/.NET came out, I had no need for C++ again. Language wars will continue forever, but what really matters is that you get involved in a marketable language (one that has plenty of jobs) and master it. Not so important which one as long as it one of the popular ones. Learning or staying up with C++ is really of little value.
Rocky <>< Blog Post: ASP.NET MVC Part 1 Tech Blog Post: Cheap Biofuels and Synthetics coming soon?
Rocky Moore wrote:
Learning or staying up with C++ is really of little value.
Right, unless your a major software vendor, like Microsoft, Oracle, Adobe, Alias|Wavefront, Lightwave, ToonBoom, Autodesk, NewTek, Borland, Google, Apple, and countless other CAD, graphics, Word processor/office suite, developer tools, and thousands of other software products out there. None of them are being written in .Net. And lets not eve start with the embedded market. My understanding is that most of these devices use C++ for the whole application stack, from the OS to the end-user layer*. Not all software is a "typical data driven business application". I don't know why people keep trying to paint this picture, or give the impression that it is. *Sadly some of these C++ frameworks that they use are sucky, but from what I've seen they aren't very good because they were poorly designed, not due to any language constraints.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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I code using VB.net for a living and honestly, I' try my absolute best to try and stay fit using other languages that are more C-Based. This is for my own benefit frankly as there isn't much reception for it here in the company, in fact, there are only two other guys here that have an interest almost equaling mine. With this in mind, I was talking to these guys about setting up some sort of group that tries to maintain C++ fitness. I actually went to talk to the CTO about it and he completely gunned it down. Not only did he refuse it out of hand, he proclaimed and I quote "No one here likes C++, in fact, there is no use for C++ anymore." :wtf::omg::mad: I can't believe it. Obviously I'll be carrying on with my own plans, but without the support and blessing of the Company. :suss:
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"
Do you ask your company if you can watch TV on the weekend? Why would you ask your company what you can do on your spare time? If you didn't want to do it on their clock or space, why did you bother asking?
Mike Lasseter
