Stop the madness Steve Jobs
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I wasn't the one vote and I apologize I read that as windows 7, not windows phone 7. Is it a technical issue or a legal restriction like Apple is enforcing?
Yesterday they said today was tomorrow but today they know better. - Poul Anderson
Probably they don’t want to support an SDK for C\C++. Wonder when this going to happen with the Desktop OS. X|
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Dan Neely wrote:
There's a huge difference between "we only support one language" and "all other languages are banned".
Oh, really? :laugh: The end result is the same in both cases. The semantics of their statements may differ, but that's about all.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
No it's not. Under the prior version of the iPhone SDK licence you were allowed to use MonoTouch, etc, etc, etc to create iPhone apps; now you're not. It's like how MS only supports C#, VB, F#, C++ (debatably), any any other languages in visual studio for writing windows apps, but you can write an app in Python, Lua, Perl, etc as long as it can call the needed APIs.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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And Windows Phone 7 will only run apps written in C#. So should Ballmer stop it, too? [edit] So will the dumbass with the 1 vote provide evidence to the contrary? Admittedly, that would require a bit of intelligence, something you're probably seriously short of. [/edit]
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Monday, April 12, 2010 1:01 PM
First reports are that Windows Phone 7 is extremely unstable so it doesn't really matter what language you use. :) (BTW, to my horror, I tend to agree with Jobs, and Microsoft, on this up to a point. I see no problem with using third party libraries if they were certified and ultimately used only the required languages/system calls. As way of explanation: when an application breaks on the iPhone, the user doesn't blame the app writer, they blame Apple and they call Apple and all that costs reputation and money . While this won't stop applications from breaking, it will mitigate it somewhat and create an overall more stable platform.)
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No it's not. Under the prior version of the iPhone SDK licence you were allowed to use MonoTouch, etc, etc, etc to create iPhone apps; now you're not. It's like how MS only supports C#, VB, F#, C++ (debatably), any any other languages in visual studio for writing windows apps, but you can write an app in Python, Lua, Perl, etc as long as it can call the needed APIs.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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And Windows Phone 7 will only run apps written in C#. So should Ballmer stop it, too? [edit] So will the dumbass with the 1 vote provide evidence to the contrary? Admittedly, that would require a bit of intelligence, something you're probably seriously short of. [/edit]
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Monday, April 12, 2010 1:01 PM
Only because of this part:
LunaticFringe wrote:
So will the dumbass with the 1 vote provide evidence to the contrary? Admittedly, that would require a bit of intelligence, something you're probably seriously short of.
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First reports are that Windows Phone 7 is extremely unstable so it doesn't really matter what language you use. :) (BTW, to my horror, I tend to agree with Jobs, and Microsoft, on this up to a point. I see no problem with using third party libraries if they were certified and ultimately used only the required languages/system calls. As way of explanation: when an application breaks on the iPhone, the user doesn't blame the app writer, they blame Apple and they call Apple and all that costs reputation and money . While this won't stop applications from breaking, it will mitigate it somewhat and create an overall more stable platform.)
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No, I'm not a mcfan boy. ;) And no, I don't see any significant differece in these policies. The end result is the same - they're restricting the language and API that can be used, beyond restrictions that existed in earlier versions.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
MS is not restricting anything, they just aren't supporting. They could care less if you use an Objective-c, or even Prolog, compiler. You can do what ever you want with whatever tools you want. You want a third party library? Wear yourself out, it's your phone! Apple says you use an app written in the wrong language, they can brick you. Still see no difference?
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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And under the previous versions of WinMo, you could write native C++ apps, and now you can't. From my perspective, there's not much difference in end result. BTW, I liked you're little 'debatably' dig. :-D
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Probably they don’t want to support an SDK for C\C++. Wonder when this going to happen with the Desktop OS. X|
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
No time soon. There's a lot of popular software packages that simply aren't possible to write in a managed runtime (at least as they are currently implemented), i.e. Office, Photoshop, just about any high end 3D application, just about any kind of Video authoring tools, etc. Major parts of those apps need to written in C/C++, or some other language that isn't constrained like C#/VB/Java et al.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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MS is not restricting anything, they just aren't supporting. They could care less if you use an Objective-c, or even Prolog, compiler. You can do what ever you want with whatever tools you want. You want a third party library? Wear yourself out, it's your phone! Apple says you use an app written in the wrong language, they can brick you. Still see no difference?
Opacity, the new Transparency.
All programs for the phone are written in managed code. OK, explain to me how this statement implies that native C++ apps will be allowed, as they were in previous versions. And I don't mean managed C++ or some parallel that allows the use native C++ syntax but produces .NetCF apps.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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You can still write them, MS just says they don't support the compiler. Did you have an compiler that used to work, but now bricks your phone?
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
MS just says they don't support the compiler.
All programs for the phone are written in managed code. So where does this sentence say that you can use native C++? It sounds to me as if the OS will not run native C++ apps, regardless of the compiler used.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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And Windows Phone 7 will only run apps written in C#. So should Ballmer stop it, too? [edit] So will the dumbass with the 1 vote provide evidence to the contrary? Admittedly, that would require a bit of intelligence, something you're probably seriously short of. [/edit]
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Monday, April 12, 2010 1:01 PM
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Maybe they thought you were stupid for not seeing the difference. :-D
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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RichardM1 wrote:
MS just says they don't support the compiler.
All programs for the phone are written in managed code. So where does this sentence say that you can use native C++? It sounds to me as if the OS will not run native C++ apps, regardless of the compiler used.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
All MS apps for the phone ARE written in managed code. :laugh: But where does it say they will brick your phone if you write one that isn't? But what you say could be possible, if they have a chip that runs IL directly. Then not just the apps, but the OS is written in it, too.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Dan Neely wrote:
There's a huge difference between "we only support one language" and "all other languages are banned".
Oh, really? :laugh: The end result is the same in both cases. The semantics of their statements may differ, but that's about all.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
The Apple license agreement says the code must be *originally* authored in the language they like. It would be akin to Microsoft saying, "You cannot write in Foo language, even if it compiles down to C# code."
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
First reports are that Windows Phone 7 is extremely unstable so it doesn't really matter what language you use. :) (BTW, to my horror, I tend to agree with Jobs, and Microsoft, on this up to a point. I see no problem with using third party libraries if they were certified and ultimately used only the required languages/system calls. As way of explanation: when an application breaks on the iPhone, the user doesn't blame the app writer, they blame Apple and they call Apple and all that costs reputation and money . While this won't stop applications from breaking, it will mitigate it somewhat and create an overall more stable platform.)
Joe, Windows Phone 7 isn't released yet. You can't buy a W7 Phone right now. Saying it's unstable is like saying Windows 9 is unstable. It's not even freakin' released.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Recalling our discussion here about developing for Apple devices I just came across this: http://stopthemadnessstevejobs.com/wordpress/[^]
Yesterday they said today was tomorrow but today they know better. - Poul Anderson
I wonder how this will affect MonoTouch. It seems the MonoTouch homepage talks about this terms of service change, though it doesn't offer anything definitive. Looks like MonoTouch may try to work with Apple to negotiate a change in the terms of service before iPhone OS 4.0 is released, but that doesn't guarantee anything. If they kill MonoTouch, I will be boycotting Apple.
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All MS apps for the phone ARE written in managed code. :laugh: But where does it say they will brick your phone if you write one that isn't? But what you say could be possible, if they have a chip that runs IL directly. Then not just the apps, but the OS is written in it, too.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
All MS apps for the phone ARE written in managed code.
Irrelevant. The point is that now ALL apps must be written in managed code, not just MS's. And this is a new restriction, similar to that from Apple. That's all I'm sayin'.
RichardM1 wrote:
But where does it say they will brick your phone if you write one that isn't?
The statement from Petzold doesn't say native apps will brick your phone. It just says they won't run. (At least that's the way I'm reading it.)
RichardM1 wrote:
But what you say could be possible, if they have a chip that runs IL directly. Then not just the apps, but the OS is written in it, too.
This is just speculation, but I don't think that would be necessary. All they need to do is block execution of native C++ apps that aren't part of the OS. And it sounds as if that's what they're doing, one way or another.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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All programs for the phone are written in managed code. OK, explain to me how this statement implies that native C++ apps will be allowed, as they were in previous versions. And I don't mean managed C++ or some parallel that allows the use native C++ syntax but produces .NetCF apps.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
LunaticFringe wrote:
explain to me how this statement implies that native C++ apps will be allowed, as they were in previous versions.
They have this restriction[^] But if it is an IL chip, then IL is native ASM, and managed code comes from native c++. Either way, you have native c++ if you want it. :-\
Opacity, the new Transparency.