Stop the madness Steve Jobs
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
i can run a "native" c++ program as long as it compiles to IL.
Well, I can jump to the "moon", as long as it's the ceiling of my bedroom. IL is not native code.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
but that isn't what was being argued
Which argument? LunaticFringe and I were having two arguments at the same time. That is, we were arguing each about a different thing from the other. There were at least 2 other arguments, as well. LF says no support for native c++ in WP7. I don't see how IL in a sandbox can be called native.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
no support for native c++ in WP7
depends on what you mean by "native".
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RichardM1 wrote:
no support for native c++ in WP7
depends on what you mean by "native".
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It's OK, I generate a lot of "Too Long, Not Read" hits on my posts. :) [edit]Hell, even when I surrender, I try and talk people to death. :laugh: [/edit]
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Man, I gotta tell ya, I can't believe all the trouble that quote/statement started! Amazing... I thought it was pretty common knowledge. The managed code thing, I mean. :-D
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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I'm sorry... I have to say it... Madness? THIS... IS...APPLE!
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)After this, I'll have to start using a new mantra: I will not imagine Steve Jobs dressed like a spartan, I will not imagine Steve Jobs dressed like a spartan...
[]'s Harkos --- "Money isn't our god, integrity will free our soul." Cut Throat - Sepultura
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Well, there goes the DragonFire SDK[^]... X| Flynn
Technically no. According to the terms, iPhone apps must be written in C, C++ or Objective C. Since DragonFire is C/C++, it should be allowed.
[]'s Harkos --- "Money isn't our god, integrity will free our soul." Cut Throat - Sepultura
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Recalling our discussion here about developing for Apple devices I just came across this: http://stopthemadnessstevejobs.com/wordpress/[^]
Yesterday they said today was tomorrow but today they know better. - Poul Anderson
Maybe Adobe: Apps for iPhone[^] is what they are trying to combat?
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Maybe Adobe: Apps for iPhone[^] is what they are trying to combat?
Yes, I think this is exactly what they are trying to stop. I think Apple has used the success of the iPhone to get more people interested in the Mac computer. If they allowed Flash or other dev environments to be used, developers would not be required to buy a Mac to develop for it.
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LunaticFringe wrote:
that Petzold said:
The Windows Phone 7 Series operating system exposes classes defined by the .NET Compact Framework. All programs for the phone are written in managed code. At the present time, C# is the only supported programming language.
LunaticFringe wrote:
Well, I'll tell you what. You come up with documentation from MS that contradicts Petzold's statement. Until that happens, you're talking out your ass.
Well, I'll tell you what. You come up with where Petzold says c++ apps won't work. Until that happens, YOU are talking out MY ass! :laugh:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
ROFLMFAO!
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I'm as common as they come, and I didn't know! ;P I have stayed out of phone dev, it was the Apple thing tweaked me. :laugh: I'm a WinForms == screwed guy, if they continue on this for desktop. :sigh:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
I'm a WinForms == screwed guy, if they continue on this for desktop
Me too - well not screwed as I can adapt of course, but I don't relish the pain of WPF when WinForms does the job so easily and is proven over many years. I need apps that work - a pretty UI is the last thing on my list.
Dave
If this helped, please vote & accept answer!
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn) -
I'm sorry... I have to say it... Madness? THIS... IS...APPLE!
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Really? Very interesting. Glad I'm only an end-user of the Apple technology - I can see how annoying this would be. I'm a .Net developer. My iPod touch is the first computer I've bought that I had no plans to write code for. Looks like I made the right choice, eh? -Max
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Nope. A quote from the Petzold e-book available from the WinMo developer portal - The Windows Phone 7 Series operating system exposes classes defined by the .NET Compact Framework. All programs for the phone are written in managed code. At the present time, C# is the only supported programming language.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
LunaticFringe wrote:
The Windows Phone 7 Series operating system exposes classes defined by the .NET Compact Framework. All programs for the phone are written in managed code. At the present time, C# is the only supported programming language.
Strange. I'd think that if the platform only handled managed code that it wouldn't matter which of the .Net languages you use whether it be C#, VB.Net or C++.Net. -max :confused:
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No, I'm not a mcfan boy. ;) And no, I don't see any significant differece in these policies. The end result is the same - they're restricting the language and API that can be used, beyond restrictions that existed in earlier versions.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
Well, the fact is that I have written Java, C, and C++ code that is translated into C# applications threw an automated process. So, even given that you STILL can write native apps using a C compiler directly, you can also create applications in any language that can be translated binarly in IL or C#. This is exactly what the new iPhone terms attempt to make illegal, as there were a number of applictions that converted Flash, .NET framework code, etc. into binary code that could execute on the iPhone. Though exactly how they can prove which language was used to create binary code is fuzzy, it is def the area of lawyers and unfounded lawsuits.
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Technically no. According to the terms, iPhone apps must be written in C, C++ or Objective C. Since DragonFire is C/C++, it should be allowed.
[]'s Harkos --- "Money isn't our god, integrity will free our soul." Cut Throat - Sepultura
One can hope. :-\ Still, a $50 investment now is cheaper than buying a Mac Mini, heh. Flynn
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Nope. A quote from the Petzold e-book available from the WinMo developer portal - The Windows Phone 7 Series operating system exposes classes defined by the .NET Compact Framework. All programs for the phone are written in managed code. At the present time, C# is the only supported programming language.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
LunaticFringe wrote:
At the present time, C# is the only supported programming language.
Last time I checked, there is a huge difference between what Petzold is saying here - that C# is the only supported language "at the present time" (implying that others will be added) and saying that "while other languages used to (and still do, technically) work, you are not allowed to use them any more, and any software designed to get around this purely arbitrary limitation is also banned." In the first case, support for multiple languages doesn't exist yet, but may be added. In the second case, support for multiple languages already exists, and is being banned for no technical reason. I don't do phone development, so I could easily be wrong - but I'm not aware that any version of Windows Mobile has ever supported any languages outside the .NET CF and managed code. A quick Google did not appear to contradict this ... I also suspect that if someone developed a wrapper that allowed other languages to compile runnable apps for WinMo, MS would be unlikely to change their EULA to prohibit it - instead, they would probably buy the authoring company and incorporate the product in WinMo 9!
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And Windows Phone 7 will only run apps written in C#. So should Ballmer stop it, too? [edit] So will the dumbass with the 1 vote provide evidence to the contrary? Admittedly, that would require a bit of intelligence, something you're probably seriously short of. [/edit]
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Monday, April 12, 2010 1:01 PM
As I understand it. Windows Phone 7 will not support native code. Everything is in Silverlight, XNA, and Flash. Article here: http://www.infoq.com/news/2010/03/Mobile7-NETCF
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And Windows Phone 7 will only run apps written in C#. So should Ballmer stop it, too? [edit] So will the dumbass with the 1 vote provide evidence to the contrary? Admittedly, that would require a bit of intelligence, something you're probably seriously short of. [/edit]
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Monday, April 12, 2010 1:01 PM
Only C#? where do you get that? So far it is becuase the Dev Kit is on CPT, but they ar working on Visual Basic, the only restriction so far is that the only way to make programs for it is using Silverlight and XNA. No C++, NO native programming. http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/archive/2010/03/15/introducing-windows-phone-7-development-tools.aspx[^]
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RichardM1 wrote:
I'm a WinForms == screwed guy, if they continue on this for desktop
Me too - well not screwed as I can adapt of course, but I don't relish the pain of WPF when WinForms does the job so easily and is proven over many years. I need apps that work - a pretty UI is the last thing on my list.
Dave
If this helped, please vote & accept answer!
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)DaveyM69 wrote:
does the job so easily and is proven
All the more reason to abandon it. :( Did they really learn so much more that the properties of WPF couldn't be a supper-set of those of WinForms? Did they really do such a bad job designing WinForms? If they had done that, you could continue to use Designer, and then let the UI designers go nuts with a tol that understood the supper set. But I suspect some NIH got in to it.
Opacity, the new Transparency.