Gun crime even in Britain [modified]
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digital man wrote:
even if directly threatened
I believe a person threatened is a very dangerous person and would most likely shoot (if he / she would hit anything that's another thing). Self preservation is one of men's primal instincts so... But never having been in a situation where I was threatened to the point of becoming dangerous and not owning a gun I can't really say what I would do.
Tom Deketelaere wrote:
But never having been in a situation where I was threatened to the point of becoming dangerous and not owning a gun I can't really say what I would do.
I think that is entirely the point. The vast majority of people, when threatened with violence, freeze and are incapable of doing anything further to protect themselves, regardless of how capable or well armed they are or they will attempt to flee. The instinct to stand and fight is, I would imagine, rare and proportionate to the perceived level of threat. e.g. I might stand and fight you if we are unarmed but I would probably try to run if you had a knife. I'd probably still run, if I could, even if I had a knife. A gun makes the argument moot: you can't outrun a bullet. On the other hand most people are pretty poor shots and couldn't hit a barn door from 20 feet, never mind aiming and firing at another person.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100603/tuk-police-may-never-know-motive-for-mas-dba1618.html[^] I can't believe this can happen in Britain. I have heard of mentally retarted twits like this in USA killing people at random for fun, but i cannot believe this can happen in Britain. There have never been random shooting rampage like this in the UK for a long time. Its a shame that this b*****d goes aroun dkilling people at random who are not connected to him in any way, just because he has had a family fued. I wonder if innocent people can even dare to walk in the streets in day light anymore. Such a non-sensical barbaric act.
modified on Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:20 PM
code_wiz wrote:
There have never been random shooting rampage like this in the UK for a long time.
Hungerford. The dude in the school with the knife. There was another one just before that, but I forget where.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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I have a fair understanding of the kettle of crazy the rest of world believes America to be. My comment was more about how he didn't think anyone in darling old Britain could ever be batshit crazy. Those people are everywhere. And yes, the US does take the prize for heavily arming as many as possible... myself included :-D
oh there are many people that you could label "fruit loops!" but rarely does it involve guns.
Marc Clifton wrote:
That has nothing to do with VB. - Oh crap. I just defended VB!
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Guns are illegal here in the UK. The only people who have them are the police and the army. Of course criminals have them. And farmers, who are allowed. You can apply for a license but that is quite hard to get. I have never handled a real weapon whilst in the UK. What would be the point? The vast majority of people have no need of them, for any reason. The gunman, apparently, had a gun license for many years though I've not seen why he needed them.
LunaticFringe wrote:
if that had been Wyoming, f***er would have had his head blown off within minutes of the alarm having been raised.
Really? Many people who carry guns have never actually had to use them. To draw your weapon and shoot at another person, never having done so before, even if directly threatened, is not most peoples first instinct unless you have been highly trained to do so.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
yes its known that the UK is one of the hardest places to get a gun licence you apply for one through the police. they then check the following 1. your want to have a licence for 2. your mental state and abuse of booze and drugs if they think your of sound mind and body then your home is then checked to see where and what your going to store the guns in, if thats ok then you get given a licence for 5 yrs. but after hungerford i believe anything that isn't for general farm use is to be kept at a gun club.
Marc Clifton wrote:
That has nothing to do with VB. - Oh crap. I just defended VB!
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code_wiz wrote:
I can't believe this can happen in Britain. I have heard of mentally retarted twits like this in USA killing people at random for fun, but i cannot believe this can happen in Britain.
Here's a list you should maybe read.[^]
He said, "Boy I'm just old and lonely, But thank you for your concern, Here's wishing you a Happy New Year." I wished him one back in return.
16. Copeland, DavidDavid Copeland, 22 04.30 April 30 1999 London U.K. 3 79 79 O Sentenced to 6 concurrent life sentences 16. Stone, Michael, 32 03.16 March 16 1988 Belfast U.K. 3 68 68 F O Sentenced to 682 years Both killed the same number of people, yet the sentences were wildly different. Of course one is Irish, the other English...
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Guns are illegal here in the UK. The only people who have them are the police and the army. Of course criminals have them. And farmers, who are allowed. You can apply for a license but that is quite hard to get. I have never handled a real weapon whilst in the UK. What would be the point? The vast majority of people have no need of them, for any reason. The gunman, apparently, had a gun license for many years though I've not seen why he needed them.
LunaticFringe wrote:
if that had been Wyoming, f***er would have had his head blown off within minutes of the alarm having been raised.
Really? Many people who carry guns have never actually had to use them. To draw your weapon and shoot at another person, never having done so before, even if directly threatened, is not most peoples first instinct unless you have been highly trained to do so.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
digital man wrote:
The only people who have them are the police and the army. Of course criminals have them. And farmers,
And people who hunt, or shoot, or do target shooting, or just collect old guns (which dont need a permit), or schools which have cadet forces. So, in my time in the UK I have fired: Rifles: Lee Enfield MK1V .303 Remingtion .308 Martini Henry .22 Anschutz .22 Lee Enfield .22 Remington .22 Pistols: Remington 9mm Colt .36 Navy A .22 target pistol Shotguns: Winchester 12 gauge repeater Remington 12 gauge semi automatic Various 12 gauge side by sides and over unders And an 8 gauge goose gun (with rather nice Damascus twist barrles) .410 The school also had a Bren gun but I never fired it. My father in law (who is an avid hunter and gun dealer has an extraordinary selection of guns rifles and pistols, (even a Smith and Wesson .359) none of which I have ever used). During all this time I have never had a license for a weapon, nor have I ever owned one. SO you can see there are rather a lot knocking around the UK.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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16. Copeland, DavidDavid Copeland, 22 04.30 April 30 1999 London U.K. 3 79 79 O Sentenced to 6 concurrent life sentences 16. Stone, Michael, 32 03.16 March 16 1988 Belfast U.K. 3 68 68 F O Sentenced to 682 years Both killed the same number of people, yet the sentences were wildly different. Of course one is Irish, the other English...
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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16. Copeland, DavidDavid Copeland, 22 04.30 April 30 1999 London U.K. 3 79 79 O Sentenced to 6 concurrent life sentences 16. Stone, Michael, 32 03.16 March 16 1988 Belfast U.K. 3 68 68 F O Sentenced to 682 years Both killed the same number of people, yet the sentences were wildly different. Of course one is Irish, the other English...
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Micheal Stone was a terrorist Copeland was the nail bomber that targeted the blacks and gays
Marc Clifton wrote:
That has nothing to do with VB. - Oh crap. I just defended VB!
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digital man wrote:
The only people who have them are the police and the army. Of course criminals have them. And farmers,
And people who hunt, or shoot, or do target shooting, or just collect old guns (which dont need a permit), or schools which have cadet forces. So, in my time in the UK I have fired: Rifles: Lee Enfield MK1V .303 Remingtion .308 Martini Henry .22 Anschutz .22 Lee Enfield .22 Remington .22 Pistols: Remington 9mm Colt .36 Navy A .22 target pistol Shotguns: Winchester 12 gauge repeater Remington 12 gauge semi automatic Various 12 gauge side by sides and over unders And an 8 gauge goose gun (with rather nice Damascus twist barrles) .410 The school also had a Bren gun but I never fired it. My father in law (who is an avid hunter and gun dealer has an extraordinary selection of guns rifles and pistols, (even a Smith and Wesson .359) none of which I have ever used). During all this time I have never had a license for a weapon, nor have I ever owned one. SO you can see there are rather a lot knocking around the UK.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
And people who hunt, or shoot, or do target shooting, or just collect old guns (which dont need a permit), or schools which have cadet forces.
You are correct - just thought my list was already getting too long but worth you adding the others.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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Micheal Stone was a terrorist Copeland was the nail bomber that targeted the blacks and gays
Marc Clifton wrote:
That has nothing to do with VB. - Oh crap. I just defended VB!
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Simon_Whale wrote:
Copeland was the nail bomber that targeted the blacks and gays
Is that not terrorising blacks and gays then?
techincally yes, but he was a lunatic acting alone, rather than being a member of a terrorist organisation.
Marc Clifton wrote:
That has nothing to do with VB. - Oh crap. I just defended VB!
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techincally yes, but he was a lunatic acting alone, rather than being a member of a terrorist organisation.
Marc Clifton wrote:
That has nothing to do with VB. - Oh crap. I just defended VB!
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fat_boy wrote:
And people who hunt, or shoot, or do target shooting, or just collect old guns (which dont need a permit), or schools which have cadet forces.
You are correct - just thought my list was already getting too long but worth you adding the others.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
Yeah, even though the UK is very restrictive. In France I have seen hunting rifles just hanging above the fireplace in peoles houses, and I believe in Belgium it is very easy to get guns of all sorts. (The son of the Vlams Belang guy who shot the Muslim woman with a shotgun in Antwerp a few years back had apparently just gone in and bought it.)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Well, to be fair, the US has such a huge rate of crimes like this compared to the rest of the world, that it's another thing where the rest of the world shakes their head sadly and says 'only in America'. They invented it, and they are the touchstone for it. That doesn't mean there are not lunatics in other parts of the world, of course.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
rest of the world shakes their head sadly and says 'only in America'. They invented it,
Except to leave out their own country's failings then of course its okay.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Yeah, even though the UK is very restrictive. In France I have seen hunting rifles just hanging above the fireplace in peoles houses, and I believe in Belgium it is very easy to get guns of all sorts. (The son of the Vlams Belang guy who shot the Muslim woman with a shotgun in Antwerp a few years back had apparently just gone in and bought it.)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
The son of the Vlams Belang guy who shot the Muslim woman with a shotgun in Antwerp a few years back had apparently just gone in and bought it.
Just for that purpose?
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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Guns are illegal here in the UK. The only people who have them are the police and the army. Of course criminals have them. And farmers, who are allowed. You can apply for a license but that is quite hard to get. I have never handled a real weapon whilst in the UK. What would be the point? The vast majority of people have no need of them, for any reason. The gunman, apparently, had a gun license for many years though I've not seen why he needed them.
LunaticFringe wrote:
if that had been Wyoming, f***er would have had his head blown off within minutes of the alarm having been raised.
Really? Many people who carry guns have never actually had to use them. To draw your weapon and shoot at another person, never having done so before, even if directly threatened, is not most peoples first instinct unless you have been highly trained to do so.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
digital man wrote:
Really? Many people who carry guns have never actually had to use them. To draw your weapon and shoot at another person, never having done so before, even if directly threatened, is not most peoples first instinct unless you have been highly trained to do so.
Let me put it this way. Guns here are tools; as such they are frequently used. People are used to working with them, just as they are used to working with their horses or cattle. Guns aren't something whose use is theoretical; they aren't something that's only used in the sterile environment of a shooting range. To get to my house, I have to drive across several miles of open rangeland. A week or so ago I turned off the paved road and onto the dirt road crossing the range. Just a hundred feet or so off the main road was the rancher's pickup. He was sitting at the wheel with a .22, aiming out the window and nailing gophers. The .22 lives in the gunrack in his pickup. When he needs to use it, it's there, he grabs it and he's a damned good shot. When I saw him I didn't think twice about it; can you imagine the reaction in most places? If this had been California, there would have been people freaking out, nutters protesting to save the gophers... And that's the way it is here. People are comfortable with guns as they are with a hammer or a saw. A lot of people are accustomed to shooting stuff a hell of a lot bigger than gophers, too. It's a different world than a city, where people may own guns, but hardly ever use them, and never, ever use them to shoot at another creature. All those rifles you see in gun racks in pickup trucks in these parts aren't there for show, and they aren't there to try and intimidate people - these aren't rednecks, they're ranchers, and they know how to use their guns.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Friday, June 4, 2010 1:04 PM
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Supposedly the world trade center was destroyed by a few terrorist with box cutters.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
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No way man. I heard it was like George Bush and the oil companies. All the truths are out there on the interweb!
But the government said it was ragheads with box cutters.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]