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  3. You are not paid to think...

You are not paid to think...

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
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  • T TheyCallMeMrJames

    Don't tell anyone, but my post was a joke. ;)

    They Call me Mister James

    M Offline
    M Offline
    Mycroft Holmes
    wrote on last edited by
    #16

    TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:

    Don't tell anyone, but my post was a joke

    Yeah I got that after I posted the response... a bit slow this morning, I'm almost in holiday mode already.

    Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH

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    • S Single Step Debugger

      Do you imagine how smooth the flight will be with some 200 vibrating chairs onboard? Pilot: “T-t-t-t-tower, tower-r-r-r here is LZ-Z-Z-Z-700 we have a p-p-p-p-problem! All my tooth fillings just fell t-t-t-t-together with the left engine”.

      There is only one Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.

      Y Offline
      Y Offline
      Yusuf
      wrote on last edited by
      #17

      :laugh:

      Yusuf May I help you?

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      • M Mycroft Holmes

        TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:

        Don't tell anyone, but my post was a joke

        Yeah I got that after I posted the response... a bit slow this morning, I'm almost in holiday mode already.

        Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH

        T Offline
        T Offline
        TheyCallMeMrJames
        wrote on last edited by
        #18

        Well, holiday mode ain't bad...I was going to originally ask if you had a case of the Mondays ;) heheh...man I hate that guy...

        They Call me Mister James

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        • J Jun Du

          One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

          Best, Jun

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          R Offline
          R Erasmus
          wrote on last edited by
          #19

          I feel we as developers/testers get paid to do just that... to think. How to automate, how to better, how to simplify, how to fix, how to go about writing it, how to brake it. If we weren't, we would of worked at Mcdees or doing hard labour. Our montly income would of reflected a no thinking salary, or more a hard working salary.

          "Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence." << please vote!! >>

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          • J Jun Du

            One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

            Best, Jun

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            G Offline
            GAMerritt
            wrote on last edited by
            #20

            Does that mean: 1) You are being paid to do anything BUT think. 2) Your employer is getting your thinking absolutely free. 3) Everyone else might be paid to think, but you aren't. 4) Your wages for thinking are 'under the table'.

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            • J Jun Du

              One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

              Best, Jun

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              C Offline
              Carlos Conceicao
              wrote on last edited by
              #21

              Well, it depends how thinkable will be your job, and if they think the requirements are trivial and can be implemented under the known knowledge base. And if people think they know all there it is to know, and there are no unknowns and known unknowns are an oxymoron. So, to think that you won't have to design anything and just template your code away, and thinking everything will work just fine and there will be no surprises of the wrong sort, I wish you good luck!

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              • J Jun Du

                One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

                Best, Jun

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                T Offline
                Tomz_KV
                wrote on last edited by
                #22

                Need some thinking but not in depth. Too much thinking is one of the reasons for over engineering. Without thinking could result in more works that are not really needed.

                TOMZ_KV

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                • F fjdiewornncalwe

                  That happens as well, but I can usually trim their expectations a little bit by massaging the requirements a bit. :)

                  I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.

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                  O Offline
                  Oakman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #23

                  Marcus Kramer wrote:

                  a little bit by massaging the requirements a bit

                  In other words, doing the thinking no-one else is doing?

                  “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken

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                  • L leppie

                    It really depends. I like developing rather than designing. For anyone to be productive they need to do one of the 2, but never both. That just leads to high unproductivity.

                    ((λ (x) `(,x ',x)) '(λ (x) `(,x ',x)))

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                    O Offline
                    Oakman
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #24

                    leppie wrote:

                    For anyone to be productive they need to do one of the 2, but never both. That just leads to high unproductivity.

                    That may be true for you. It doesn't mean it's true for all.

                    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken

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                    • J Jun Du

                      One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

                      Best, Jun

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                      R Offline
                      RTS WORK
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #25

                      Seems like more companies these days are hiring Business Analysts to think and Developers to code. I think the theory is that business analysts cost less and can relate to the business better than a developer. At my current and previous job developers have little or no contact with users and all issues are mitigated through a BA. Some of this may also have to do with the personality of the department managers. Does anyone else work with BAs and what role do they play in your organization?

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                      • J Jun Du

                        One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

                        Best, Jun

                        F Offline
                        F Offline
                        Fabio Franco
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #26

                        It depends on your role of the company. If someone simply implements stuff that has already been designed by others, temptation to do it differently might kick in, but this person is not paid to "think" a better way to do stuff, he simply needs to do it. Unfortunatelly it's usually how it is. In past times I had really nasty fights with team leaders because I didn't agree the way something was beeing done, and I felt really mad to do stuff I knew wouldn't work. This fights looked bad for me, none of the times I convinced them to do it my way and when the time came to say "I told you so", my salary didn't rise and I didn't get a promotion. So thinking in my case was pointless and has done more harm than good to my career. A very good example is JSOP, that thinked and it didn't matter anyway, he still had to convert stuff from C# to VB, no matter how insane that sounded.

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                        • S Single Step Debugger

                          Do you imagine how smooth the flight will be with some 200 vibrating chairs onboard? Pilot: “T-t-t-t-tower, tower-r-r-r here is LZ-Z-Z-Z-700 we have a p-p-p-p-problem! All my tooth fillings just fell t-t-t-t-together with the left engine”.

                          There is only one Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.

                          S Offline
                          S Offline
                          Sterling Camden independent consultant
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #27

                          Maybe not, if the phase differences can be properly managed to cancel out each others' effects.

                          Contains coding, but not narcotic.

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                          • F fjdiewornncalwe

                            I consider that I'm paid to get out customer requests based on deadlines and LOE's that I suggest. If I say a job will take 2 weeks, it is then my responsibility to get it out in that time. How much time to "think" depends on how much time I can convince the customer a project will take.

                            I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.

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                            E Offline
                            Earl Truss
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #28

                            I'm no good at word games and I hate acronymns. What's an LOE?

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                            • J Jun Du

                              One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

                              Best, Jun

                              S Offline
                              S Offline
                              SeattleC
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #29

                              Yes: you are paid to think. You are paid to think of the most efficient way to do things, regarding all factors including design time, delivered code quality, timliness to market, etc. Spending an extended time in contemplation is only to the point when the product of such contemplation is expected to be justified against all the constraints you are meant to consider. I mean, Duh!

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                              • R RTS WORK

                                Seems like more companies these days are hiring Business Analysts to think and Developers to code. I think the theory is that business analysts cost less and can relate to the business better than a developer. At my current and previous job developers have little or no contact with users and all issues are mitigated through a BA. Some of this may also have to do with the personality of the department managers. Does anyone else work with BAs and what role do they play in your organization?

                                S Offline
                                S Offline
                                SeattleC
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #30

                                Yeah, that's the dark side of agile. It was scaring the crap out of the beer-drinking crowd back in the 90's when the geeks were suddenly sought-after employees and even desirable mates. Something Had To Be Done, and the Business Analyst was the answer. The BA stood between the geeks and the customer, so there was no way for the geeks to check to see if he knew his stuff or not. Then tighten up the schedule, and blame the developers if the product was unsuccessful in the market, or better yet, punish the devs further with late-night catch-up coding as requirements "changed". I mean honestly, do you really think an add/change/delete screen isn't a thing that can be spec'd out once and for all?

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                                • J Jun Du

                                  One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

                                  Best, Jun

                                  F Offline
                                  F Offline
                                  Frank W Wu
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #31

                                  "over-design" is Jun Du’s interpretation; not his manager’s. You have to ask your manager’s definition. And different manager will tell you different definition. This will force you think harder.

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                                  • J Jun Du

                                    One of our supervisors posted this at his cubicle (as a joke, of course). Seriously, are we or should we be paid to think in our daily work? By "think", I mean spending a lot of time in great details, something we call "over-design".

                                    Best, Jun

                                    S Offline
                                    S Offline
                                    Steve Naidamast
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #32

                                    Yes, let's not think and simply become machines... Who says SkyNet is dead!?!?

                                    Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com

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                                    • S Steve Naidamast

                                      Yes, let's not think and simply become machines... Who says SkyNet is dead!?!?

                                      Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com

                                      G Offline
                                      G Offline
                                      GAMerritt
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #33

                                      "Cogito Ergo Spam"

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