What we are and what is this universe?
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A little arrogance mixed in there perhaps? (sort of a reply to your earlier comment to PaulW about he shouldn't be arrogant) :-D That's why I ramble so much. If you're short and quotable, there's a much greater danger of ending up in a sig. [Christopher Duncan on how to prevent yourself from ending up in a sig]
It is not arrogant in the least bit. To glorify God is to obey him. How is this arrogant?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Paul Watson wrote: We have no purpose other than what we assign ourselves. That's just pure arrogance Paul. Don't fall for that crap.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: That's just pure arrogance Paul. Don't fall for that crap. I am not "falling" for it Jason, I believe it and have thought about it. I create my own purpose, there is no God doing it for me. I think believing some universe creating diety spares time to help me through life is even more arrogant. Naturally you may believe what you will though.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Jason Henderson wrote: I don't claim to know everything, but I do hope he finds the truth and I hope you do also. I'n not sure to totally understand, do you pretend being in the truth when we're not ? :confused:
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
KaЯl wrote: do you pretend being in the truth when we're not No. I want you to know the truth, as I also want to know the truth.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Jason Henderson wrote: That's just pure arrogance Paul. Don't fall for that crap. I am not "falling" for it Jason, I believe it and have thought about it. I create my own purpose, there is no God doing it for me. I think believing some universe creating diety spares time to help me through life is even more arrogant. Naturally you may believe what you will though.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
To each his own.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Paul Watson wrote: "I am not a follower of any organised/mass religion. I am still too young to be able to give you a standard answer to this. Many things I am still thinking about, many things I have yet to even start thinking about. I have much life left to live before I can claim any religion or belief system as my own." So you will choose your own religion with time, one which you think is true and you are not bound to choose any. Ok tell me what you think what is our end? where we will eventually go? are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Paul Watson wrote: Right now I believe in the universe and that that is all there is, which in itself is a lot. No being which stands outside of the universe and looks down on us. ok then what you think we have came from? and how did it happen. you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities. for example, i you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. I wonder, if this is true and has been proven, from where did this very first living cell come from on earth which created other living things. @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities. for example, i you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell Where was this proven and by whom ? Perhaps science was not one of you better subjects or you have a religious bias toward certain aspects of it. I fully expect that "life" will be created by man in the next decade in the laboratory. That ought to put a dimple in the religious chin for sure. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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To each his own.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: To each his own. Indeed :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaChristopher Duncan wrote: Which explains why when Santa asked, "And what do you want for Christmas, little boy?" I said, "A life." (Accesories sold separately)
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Aisha Ikram wrote: it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell It was thought that people would suffocate on trains if they went faster then 20mph, it was thought that the world was flat. It was proved that bumblebees couldn't fly eventhough we know they do (and we now know how they do it). Many things are proved everyday which are later disproved by more upto date methods. Just because we cannot do something now does not mean that we cannot do it. It would be a shame to think that the human race is at the pinnacle of its success and knowledge. Tell me if we manage to find a way to travel faster then light will we go backwards in time or will we just get there faster?
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
Shaun Wilde wrote: Tell me if we manage to find a way to travel faster then light will we go backwards in time or will we just get there faster? If you manage to travel faster than light ( which I do believe to be impossible ) then time will be of little relevance to you because you will be outside of space/time. Since information cannot be propagated faster than lightspeed you will, for all practical purposes, cease to exist in terms of the current universe. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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Christian Graus wrote: Seriously, how can that be, when natural law is for things to atrophy, not to go from chaos to order The laws of thermodynamics (including entropy) are only applicable to closed systems. Earth is not a closed system. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan Shannon wrote: The laws of thermodynamics (including entropy) are only applicable to closed systems. Earth is not a closed system. And it applies only to systems where energy is static. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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Brian Azzopardi wrote: I know that in your post you were criticing my position but I couldnt help using your own arguments against you. I hope you don't mind Not at all - I love debate :) Brian Azzopardi wrote: why do you percieve the existence of God. You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Having grown up in an area of extreme natural beauty, it has always been easy for me to believe in God, just by looking around me. It also seems to me that humans wouldn't have the desire for a greater being if it were unnatural, and we were purely developed from evolution. Proof. I have only one memory of tangible proof that would satisfy your question. In high school I was in boarding school. Every Tuesday a local church would have members come round and we could miss evening study hall if we wanted and attend their teaching instead. While I did believe in God, I have to admit that getting out of study hall was a big motivator for all of us. One evening they prayed over this younger (14 year old, still growing) boy, that his one leg which was about 2 inches shorter than the other would grow to become the same length. Seems perfectly reasonable - he was still growing, why shouldn't it catch up over the next 4 to 5 years while he grows to adulthood? The only thing was, by the end of the prayer they were both the same length! I wish I had kept my eyes open. Otherwise it seems that proof is all around us, in every beautiful thing we see. Equally we can see evil every day, and don't have to look too far to find it. One thing I always find surprising is that people are more than happy to believe in the evil supernatural, but question the good. Asking me to prove something that we have both agreed is beyond our comprehension is ludicrous. Do I believe? Yes. And I always will. :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
Megan Forbes wrote: It also seems to me that humans wouldn't have the desire for a greater being if it were unnatural, and we were purely developed from evolution. AH !! Humans are different from other animals in that we have a abundance of curiosity and a need to explain and undrestand things around us. It is a trait among the higher primates that reaches its peak in Sapiens. Since there are things that we could not explain by our understanding of how things worked we had to come up with something to satisfy that genetic urge so we invented "GODS". ANd have been stuck with them ever since Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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I did a search on Son of God in the New Testament of the Bible only. Here are the results if you are interested: http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?search=Son+of+God&SearchType=AND&version=NIV&restrict=New_Testament&StartRestrict=&EndRestrict=&rpp=25&language=english&searchpage=0&x=4&y=14 Demons proclaimed him the Son of God, God proclaimed him his son when he was baptized. If Muslims believe Jesus was sent by God then why would he be lying by calling himself God's Son (John 11:4)? Check out http://answering-islam.org/[^] and let me know what you think of it. \ I don't know much about the Qur'an or Mohammed, but I'd like to read more about them. Its up to each individual to figure out what he/she believes and we need ask God to open our hearts to the truth. I sincerely hope you find it. :)
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: If Muslims believe Jesus was sent by God then why would he be lying by calling himself God's Son (John 11:4)? Qur'an talks about a scripture called "Injeel" sent to Jesus. However it also says that some of the teachings that were orginally attributed to Jesus was changed / modified by the time the Qur'an started to reveal [in 610 A.D.] For example, on the issue of the "sonhood" of Jesus, Qur'an says.. "They say: God has taken a son. Glorified be He! He has no needs! His is all that is in the heavens and that is in the earth. You have no warrant for this, do you say regarding God that which you know not?" [3: 59] Obviouly, we have a clear disagreement on this issue, and like the links you mentioned, I can also show some links on the original teaching of Jesus ( such as this one ) but that would start another flame war. Jason Henderson wrote: I sincerely hope you find it. That is my hope too, and for both of us. Regards. // Fazlul
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Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame- -Albert Einstein Without struggle, there is no progress
Lets not profane Uncle Albert - he had his own ideas about religion and God that would , I think, differ from yours. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean. Albert Einstein Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods Albert Einstein If A equals success, then the formula is A equals X plus Y plus Z. X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut. Albert Einstein Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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Luther Weeks wrote: If there is a god, and he lets this happen, he can keep heaven to himself. Who are you to tell God how to run the universe? It is precisely this arrogance, this rejection of God which you have so eloquently shown us, that has caused all of our grief in the first place. Your dead mother and father no longer have a choice whether they want to make it to heaven or not, but you do. Personally, I would rather believe in God and end up being wrong than the other way around.
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: Personally, I would rather believe in God and end up being wrong than the other way around. So which one then? I sincerely hope you don't really think like that.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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Jason Henderson wrote: If Muslims believe Jesus was sent by God then why would he be lying by calling himself God's Son (John 11:4)? Qur'an talks about a scripture called "Injeel" sent to Jesus. However it also says that some of the teachings that were orginally attributed to Jesus was changed / modified by the time the Qur'an started to reveal [in 610 A.D.] For example, on the issue of the "sonhood" of Jesus, Qur'an says.. "They say: God has taken a son. Glorified be He! He has no needs! His is all that is in the heavens and that is in the earth. You have no warrant for this, do you say regarding God that which you know not?" [3: 59] Obviouly, we have a clear disagreement on this issue, and like the links you mentioned, I can also show some links on the original teaching of Jesus ( such as this one ) but that would start another flame war. Jason Henderson wrote: I sincerely hope you find it. That is my hope too, and for both of us. Regards. // Fazlul
Fazlul Kabir wrote: Qur'an talks about a scripture called "Injeel" sent to Jesus. However it also says that some of the teachings that were orginally attributed to Jesus was changed / modified by the time the Qur'an started to reveal [in 610 A.D.] The gospel of John can be authenticated and traced back to an early manuscript from around 100 AD. The Author of the book of John, the apostle John, died around 90 AD. Most other New Testament books have been authenticated in this way. I am by no means an expert though. Fazlul Kabir wrote: Obviouly, we have a clear disagreement on this issue, and like the links you mentioned, I can also show some links on the original teaching of Jesus ( such as this one ) but that would start another flame war. I don't want a flame war, however, I do have one more quesiton. How can Muslims believe anything the Bible or the Old Testament says if they think the Jews and Catholics corrupted it? Could Mohammed have been corrupted when he wrote the Qur'an as well?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Brian Azzopardi wrote: that they used to kill people for doubting them. It's a shame that so many judge God by those who falsely claim to follow Him. For the record, religion being used as an excuse to wage war is as old as religion itself. That does not make God wrong. Brian Azzopardi wrote: There is nothing greater than human beings and there is everything. What a sad world you inhabit if you believe this. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Religion is full of dogma, constantly closing doors. That is true. Relgion is generally also not about God. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Science and people of a curios nature always leave the door open to the unknown, waiting, indeed, hoping for the next new thing. It sounds to me like science is your religion. You're wrong though. Scientists are also people, and for every scientist that presents bad science to support his misreading of the Bible ( for example the young earth theory ), there are 100 that ignore the evidence before them regarding the creator. Have you seen the BBC series 'The Human Body' ? He talks often of amazing design, and of things that simply could not evolve ( for example the process of birth, had it at any stage not existed, would have rendered us extinct ), and then goes on to explain what he was taught at school, and what his mind has been closed to accept without question. Brian Azzopardi wrote: You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Not believing is not a sign of arrogance, it's just facing the facts. I have never met you, therefore I presume you do not exist. Is this a logical or sensible course of action for me to take ? Or should I presume I simply haven't tried to meet you, nor have I had the chance. I am certain God exists because I have seen many healings such as that Megan mentioned, because I've been healed by God myself, and because the Bible lays down a specific promise to people willing to ask God to show that He exists. That experience was, is and will always be proof enough to me that God exists, and that's exactly the way He planned it. Brian Azzopardi wrote: When was the last time the pope was waiting for the next new thing? Doesn't he invent them himself, and claim inspiration from God for doing so ? Seriously, organised religion had nothing to do with God when Jesus came, why would it be different n
Christian Graus wrote: Either way, not a shred of proof exists that evolution is real Really? What about bacteria? They are a perfect example of evolution on a speed scale we can actually monitor with our own eyes. The ones that mutated to have a natural tendency to react against an antibaterial agent survive to reproduce in the millions, and the genetic makeup of each of those in turn contains the mutation, etc, etc, etc, for generations. If it is mutated out again to something that has negative effects then they die before reproducing, or else their children have a much lower chance of survival. We can actually see this process taking place. (In more advanced species than baceteria, genetically deprived members will instinctively desire to mate with those holding desirable genes to try to ensure the continuance of their own desirable genes - humans included). I'd have thought the mere fact every individual organism, exlcuding a minute quanity of biological clones and the even smaller element of pure chance, has different genes to the next is evidence enough that mutation happens constantly - not that it is triggered to look for a cause. Survival of the fittest is not a concept outside of modern religious beliefs. Even god-believers can believe in evolution if they'll open their eyes - there is nothing about it that could not have been triggered - it does not explain the creation of the universe for example, merely the sheer diversity of life. Darwin himself was not a special case - there were many others evne in his day drawing the same conclusions as he was (indeed there was even an Austrailian who held back to let Darwin publish Origin of Species). People at those times in the respected scientific and educational parts of society were largely religious people who didn't consider the theory of evolution as they didn't consider there was anything there they did not already know through the teachings of the Bible taken far too literally. Darwin too, I believe, started with those beliefs but saw through his own observation that genetic mutations that carried an advantage were being passed on to subsequent generations, whereas those that were not were dying out. This was witnessed, not hypothesised. Part of the reason Darwin took so long to publish was not entirely because he feared ridicule by his peers - part of it was because he himself had trouble fitting it into his own beliefs.
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Lets not profane Uncle Albert - he had his own ideas about religion and God that would , I think, differ from yours. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean. Albert Einstein Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods Albert Einstein If A equals success, then the formula is A equals X plus Y plus Z. X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut. Albert Einstein Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
if you care to look it up, you will find that the quote does come from Albert Einstein. Let me make it easier for you, since you seem to believe that any person have fixed ideas all their lives and they never change. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/q100646.html[^] Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
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That's interesting. Fazlul Kabir wrote: However Muslims do not consider him as a son of God. He called himself the Son of God, so how can Muslims believe otherwise?
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Jason Henderson wrote: He called himself the Son of God, so how can Muslims believe otherwise? Oh gosh, I wish someone had told me it was that easy before now... I David and the son of God. Build me temples and churches, send me gold, smellies and chocolate. Worship me daily and I will make sure you get into this wonderful place where you will live as one continuous orgasm for all enternity. After all, how can anyone disprove my claims? :~
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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Jason Henderson wrote: I sincerely hope you find it. Don't you even consider it might be to you to find it ? :confused:
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
KaЯl wrote: Don't you even consider it might be to you to find it ? No no no no no. The first rule of arrogance is that you never seek to disprove your own beliefs.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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if you care to look it up, you will find that the quote does come from Albert Einstein. Let me make it easier for you, since you seem to believe that any person have fixed ideas all their lives and they never change. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/q100646.html[^] Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
I never said AE didn't say it. Just that taken in context with other things what he said and wrote what he said was not what you meant. Grow up- spread out - learn something. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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KaЯl wrote: Don't you even consider it might be to you to find it ? No no no no no. The first rule of arrogance is that you never seek to disprove your own beliefs.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
Apparently you neglected to read the rest of our messages. ;P
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism * -
Apparently you neglected to read the rest of our messages. ;P
Jason Henderson
start page ; articles henderson is coming henderson is an opponent's worst nightmare * googlism *Nah, I was practising the British art of piss taking. :-D
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.