I hate Javascript....
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
Super Lloyd wrote:
don't they realize the power of HTML5
That power is accessed through Javascript.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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Super Lloyd wrote:
don't they realize the power of HTML5
That power is accessed through Javascript.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I was not very clear, in this sentence I was paraphrasing the Javascript biggot! But he doesn't convince me!!!! But I don't believe him! :P Javascript is not better, it's playing catching up, with blood and tears on top!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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I don't like it either, but their is some functionality that can only be achieved with javascript, the most I use is the simple messagebox functionality in ASP.NET. AJAX is nice but much to complicated to implement in existing applications...
I mean I prefer to write Silverlight app! I know Google (and even MS) have office like app in JS, but I will maintain it's much easier to develop, debug, maintain the same things in Silverlight! And I despise those who pretend the contrary... I will only go as far as saying than a javascript appmight work better on linux on firefox (but me and our customers don't care) and will "work" on an iPhone /Android (as opposed to Silverlight) but the level of interaction we need in our app make it useless on such device!!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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...I really do, I think it's great, especially if you have the privelege of using jQuery
Would you go as far as saying it's as productive and easy to use to develop, debug and maintain, say, that an excel like application, than C#/Silverlight would be? I don't think so.... (according to the other guy it is, and all the problem we have it's all because of IE, not because JS is innapropriate)
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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Would you go as far as saying it's as productive and easy to use to develop, debug and maintain, say, that an excel like application, than C#/Silverlight would be? I don't think so.... (according to the other guy it is, and all the problem we have it's all because of IE, not because JS is innapropriate)
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
I'd say it's roughly equivalent, especially given all the open source frameworks around. It's rare I have to write tons of javascript from scratch as there's usually a jquery plugin I can use and customise if necessary, and if there isn't, there are plenty of other sources of JS examples on the net. For debugging I always use Firebug, and yes, IE is the source of most problems. Even our somewhat expensive third party .net WebForms control library doesn't render correctly in IE without having to code workarounds or submit bug reports. All other browsers are fine. It's getting better, mind.
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I don't like it either, but their is some functionality that can only be achieved with javascript, the most I use is the simple messagebox functionality in ASP.NET. AJAX is nice but much to complicated to implement in existing applications...
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Would you go as far as saying it's as productive and easy to use to develop, debug and maintain, say, that an excel like application, than C#/Silverlight would be? I don't think so.... (according to the other guy it is, and all the problem we have it's all because of IE, not because JS is innapropriate)
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
To get it to work as users expect, on all platforms? Probably not that different, if you ditch IE (7 and 6 at least) users anyway. I actually did some work on something very similar to this (a grid based web app) and about 80% of the time was trying to make it work in IE6. That really is Microsoft's fault (not only is their DOM and script engine not standards-compliant, but it also has holes all over it where things which are supposed to work just don't). Getting Silverlight controls to do what you want, if they don't do it out of the box, is a huge pain as well. And at the end of it you have something which isn't browser-native and requires a plugin. Isn't that why we all started doing Web 2.0 and not using Java applets in the first place?
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
Super Lloyd wrote:
although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app
you can
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
It's not so bad when you have vs2010 SP1 and all the intellisense features enabled. We are working on beating our code into submission so we can use jsLint as part of the build process. Adding client side templates and a UI framework like sproutcore and it's practically respectable. If you are still writing procedural code with a crap load of global variables and alert debugging, then yeah it's just as bad as VB6 was back in the day.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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It's not so bad when you have vs2010 SP1 and all the intellisense features enabled. We are working on beating our code into submission so we can use jsLint as part of the build process. Adding client side templates and a UI framework like sproutcore and it's practically respectable. If you are still writing procedural code with a crap load of global variables and alert debugging, then yeah it's just as bad as VB6 was back in the day.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
Did SP1 add js intelisense? There sure as hell isn't any sign meaningful sign that I'm not using a massively bloated version of notepad when editing .js files. Seeing my beloved IDE revert to something LESS capable than the turbo pascal 7 IDE when I was less than half my current age is even more unpleasant than either the javascript language itself or the performance/stability problems that firebug injects into firefox. Adding insult to injury, after dragging their feet for months the beancounters as work bought my resharper 5 license days before the free upgrade to 6.0 became available. :((
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Hey man! have a :java: and chill.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
Assuming that that icon is coffee, I can think of better ways of relaxing than imbibing stimulants. (ps. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of coffee, but not when I'm trying to chill or sleep).
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I'm slogging through a user story that requires me to combine NHibernate, MVC3, and JQuery to finish, which is all new to me (I usually write Windows or DB apps), and the code is a spaghetti mess. Do people just like chaining jquery expressions together just for the hell of it, or to obfuscate their code for the next dev?! I miss asp.net web forms with code behind...nice, simple, clean, easy.
I agree with you on jQuery - its another of those languages/libraries that allows incredibly terse expressions to do a lot, at the expense of readability and maintainability.
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Assuming that that icon is coffee, I can think of better ways of relaxing than imbibing stimulants. (ps. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of coffee, but not when I'm trying to chill or sleep).
Rob Grainger wrote:
Assuming that that icon is coffee
It is indeed. The (obviously inadequate) attempt at humour/irony is that to get that emoticon you type <colon>java<colon>. Java. Geddit? Did you see what I did there?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
JavaScript may have it's problems (and more than a few) but at least it is cross-platform and cross-browser (mostly, I'm looking at you IE). So I would say that it is still a better choice than Silverlight, unless your project is internal and you can dictate it's usage across your user-base. But then it still locks you in to a single platform choice. For all of it's problems JavaScript isn't too bad, personally I'm looking forward to seeing what Dart can do.
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Rob Grainger wrote:
Assuming that that icon is coffee
It is indeed. The (obviously inadequate) attempt at humour/irony is that to get that emoticon you type <colon>java<colon>. Java. Geddit? Did you see what I did there?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
I was wondering how you got that one - it doesn't appear in my panel to the left here. Is there a guide somewhere to usable icons that you are aware of.
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
I have really enjoyed reading these comments. I am personally a huge fan of JavaScript, but that doesn't mean it's any better or worse than any others' choice of language. I have never had the opportunity to work with much Silverlight/.NET so maybe thats why I leveraged a lot in JavaScript - especially for some neat bells and whistles on my web-systems. And yes, with HTML5, Javascript is in the spot light - but that doens't mean everyone has to use it, right? And for all the non-Javascript developers out there, I will agree with one thing - when Javascript is too heavily used, it can cause a lag in performance - so it should be used with wisdom :-) And the reliance on libraries liek jQuery (which I also use from time to time), can also be too heavily used and cause huge performance issues. Sometimes, there is no need to use it, but people still do. Maybe some articles/blogs on when to use Javascript(jQuery) vs when not to would be great here! Thanks and happy coding to all! John Y. ________ John Y. Developer
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At work there is a big project in Javascript, there is a project leader manager who swear by javascript and the evilness of IE and Silverlight. That Silverlight is dead and useless and Javascript is the future and so powerful. Mm.... For that matter the web is populated by javasript biggot who think Javascript rule the world, it is announced, all other technology are going to die, don't they realize the power of HTML5? I guess I'm a .NET biggot (although I would love WinRT/C++ if it could write normal desktop app (as opposed to "immersive app" only)), but this blind javascript madness is irking me!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.