Should Hackers Get Jail Time?
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
MehGerbil wrote:
Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people?
While I agree with your sediments, I think it could be more simply put, should these people be dealt with the same as those who create an internet based denial of service attack. The core of what you seem to be trying to say is that there are people who have found ways of denying your ability to play a game that you have paid for. There are existing laws to deal with DOS attacks, maybe those just need to be re-evaluated in how / where they are applied to?
MehGerbil wrote:
Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind.
Instead of removing them from the population, how about giving them something more socially acceptable to exercise their minds with?
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
I have had the same feeling many times. However, I just play a different game or choose a different server when this happens. If the game maker can't protect you, then you need a new game. It also takes people reporting it, which no one does in some cases. I have often wondered why it would be illegal for me to test some things out on them, if they've already ruined my fun by hacking. After all, turnabout is fair play I think. Most cases I get their ip address either from the game, the forums, etc.... and then just choose not to use it. I just like knowing that I 'could' ...... By the time I have run down the necessary information I have expelled the negative energy I felt towards them and don't do anything malicious :D
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So in your world if someone breaks into a bank you punish the bank and don't bother with the robbers? I just don't support the idea that people who maliciously work to destory the efforts of responsible citizens should be given a free pass. I don't see where we give a pass with it comes to the malicious destruction of other people's property/business/etc in other sectors.
So in your world if someone breaks into a bank you punish the bank and don't bother with the robbers?
Gerbil - we live in the same world. If the cheats paid to play, they have a right to be there. If they've violated their TOS, it is up to the game host to enforce the TOS. Boot them off the server with no refund. Lots of people deal with this problem by hosting their own game servers so they can screen players and maintain a quality game experience.
I just don't support the idea that people who maliciously work to destory the efforts of responsible citizens should be given a free pass. I don't see where we give a pass with it comes to the malicious destruction of other people's property/business/etc in other sectors.
Fair enough but I don't want to see government resources spent enforcing one company's business model. The game company has the ability to design and maintain a reliable system with sufficient checks and balances to ensure quality of game play. That may mean hiring full time referees to police players for inappropriate behavior. If you sell a movie ticket to someone and they start talking one their cellphone while the movie is playing, you toss them out without a refund - or risk losing business when the other movie goers choose another cinema. This is the realm of business and civil law - not criminal law. I'm tired of the idea that "there ought to be a law" for every little irritation or inconvenience in life. It's life. We deal with it and move on.
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
MehGerbil wrote:
Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end.
It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people?
Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind.Just finished up reading about Microsoft's improved security. The article kept calling the problems "bugs". Well, no. A bug is what happens when, during the course of normal use, the program (or OS) does something unexpected. A worm infecting 80% of the systems on the planet is not a bug. It's some moron finding a way to purposely break a system. Yes, a security hole. But the only ones using the holes are the asshats. Kill all the asshats and it wouldn't matter if there were holes or not. 7 billion people on the planet. We wouldn't miss them.
So I rounded up my camel Just to ask him for a smoke He handed me a Lucky, I said "Hey, you missed the joke." My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
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So in your world if someone breaks into a bank you punish the bank and don't bother with the robbers?
Gerbil - we live in the same world. If the cheats paid to play, they have a right to be there. If they've violated their TOS, it is up to the game host to enforce the TOS. Boot them off the server with no refund. Lots of people deal with this problem by hosting their own game servers so they can screen players and maintain a quality game experience.
I just don't support the idea that people who maliciously work to destory the efforts of responsible citizens should be given a free pass. I don't see where we give a pass with it comes to the malicious destruction of other people's property/business/etc in other sectors.
Fair enough but I don't want to see government resources spent enforcing one company's business model. The game company has the ability to design and maintain a reliable system with sufficient checks and balances to ensure quality of game play. That may mean hiring full time referees to police players for inappropriate behavior. If you sell a movie ticket to someone and they start talking one their cellphone while the movie is playing, you toss them out without a refund - or risk losing business when the other movie goers choose another cinema. This is the realm of business and civil law - not criminal law. I'm tired of the idea that "there ought to be a law" for every little irritation or inconvenience in life. It's life. We deal with it and move on.
I'm talking about something beyond the actual players. I'm talking about going after the people who create, market, and sell cheat programs. Would I be able to freely create, market, and sell programs that are specifically designed to hack bank accounts, ATMS, or other financial services? I'm not talking about a general program that could be used for that - I'm talking something designed/marketed specifically for the task. Would I be able to freely create, market, and sell programs that cause gas station pumps to sell me gas for thirty cents a gallon instead of the normal $3.50? I could tell the gas station attendant that it's his job to run a secure system. I don't care for parasites. People who program this kind of misery should be exterminated. They're a drag on the planet.
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Games are the most sophisticated programs made. They tax every system resource - sound, graphics, etc. They model real world physics and are littered with algorithms and so forth. Many incorporate the latest advances in AI, or in the case of Kinect, motion capture. It's okay if you are new to programming, but you might wanna read up on a few things before posting.
I've been programming for 25 years and hardly new to programming. I usually prefer to leave ethical and legal questions to the upper management, lawyers and marketing department. As a developer I'm interested in technology. Period. I would play the game just to get a feel for it but after first couple of seconds I usually catch myself thinking how would I do it. Same thing when I read about the hack. I would go and investigate to check out the loophole, technology, ... I would not spend much time either playing the game or developing the hack just because at some point in live my priority became - mortgage, kids, family, ... And to do that I need to bring home some money. I can't make too much of it by either playing, hacking or discussing ethical and legal implications of either. By by looking at how people do hacking or playing I become better developer and potentially increase my worth. As far as what it takes to build a game and other people response to your best efforts - I do know and appreciate that - you can either check my games at https://market.android.com/developer?pub=GASP[^] or my articles on this site.
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I've been programming for 25 years and hardly new to programming. I usually prefer to leave ethical and legal questions to the upper management, lawyers and marketing department. As a developer I'm interested in technology. Period. I would play the game just to get a feel for it but after first couple of seconds I usually catch myself thinking how would I do it. Same thing when I read about the hack. I would go and investigate to check out the loophole, technology, ... I would not spend much time either playing the game or developing the hack just because at some point in live my priority became - mortgage, kids, family, ... And to do that I need to bring home some money. I can't make too much of it by either playing, hacking or discussing ethical and legal implications of either. By by looking at how people do hacking or playing I become better developer and potentially increase my worth. As far as what it takes to build a game and other people response to your best efforts - I do know and appreciate that - you can either check my games at https://market.android.com/developer?pub=GASP[^] or my articles on this site.
I'll admit I'm surprised. So if you managed to develop a MMORPG(1) and had 100,000 customers paying a monthly fee to access new content you'd have no problem with me opening a shop down the street wherein I hire programmers to write malware specifically targetting your product? It isn't a product add on - it's a cheat program. I completely understand wanting to tinker with a game that you've purchased. Making code in your own home to play with a single player RPG is utterly harmless. It probably violates a law somewhere, but I don't see this harming anything. However, developing & marketing & selling a program designed to hack a specific service (bank service, merchant service, game service) wherein other users are driven from the product should be a crime IMHO. But back to the point - you'd have my shop down the street actively selling a product that targets your product and upsets your user base. You'd be okay with that? NOTES ------------------------------------------------------- 1: Granted, that's beyond the scope of an app store, but roll with this one.
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I'll admit I'm surprised. So if you managed to develop a MMORPG(1) and had 100,000 customers paying a monthly fee to access new content you'd have no problem with me opening a shop down the street wherein I hire programmers to write malware specifically targetting your product? It isn't a product add on - it's a cheat program. I completely understand wanting to tinker with a game that you've purchased. Making code in your own home to play with a single player RPG is utterly harmless. It probably violates a law somewhere, but I don't see this harming anything. However, developing & marketing & selling a program designed to hack a specific service (bank service, merchant service, game service) wherein other users are driven from the product should be a crime IMHO. But back to the point - you'd have my shop down the street actively selling a product that targets your product and upsets your user base. You'd be okay with that? NOTES ------------------------------------------------------- 1: Granted, that's beyond the scope of an app store, but roll with this one.
I know where you coming from. I'm myself choosing to concentrate on the technical aspects of the issue rather than ethical. On one side there is a open source side of the coin where source should be open and if developer wants to hack-prove their game, they need spend some resources and do it. On the other hand I can understand frustration the developer and users feel when someone tinkers with their stuff. However by the same standard, when people are finding and exploring holes in the Windows, all the calls for ethical behavour are pointless, the only real solution is for Microsoft to fix the problem. I think there is no arguing that Windows today are safer and more stable than any other environment just because so many hackers for such a long time had a chance to explore it and because developer (Microsoft) took care of uncovered issues. I choose to look at the hackers as free, white box, high quality testers - by finding and exposing the problems, I think they only doing service for the developers, as public and unpleasant as it may be.
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I'm talking about something beyond the actual players. I'm talking about going after the people who create, market, and sell cheat programs. Would I be able to freely create, market, and sell programs that are specifically designed to hack bank accounts, ATMS, or other financial services? I'm not talking about a general program that could be used for that - I'm talking something designed/marketed specifically for the task. Would I be able to freely create, market, and sell programs that cause gas station pumps to sell me gas for thirty cents a gallon instead of the normal $3.50? I could tell the gas station attendant that it's his job to run a secure system. I don't care for parasites. People who program this kind of misery should be exterminated. They're a drag on the planet.
I'm talking about something beyond the actual players.
I'm talking about going after the people who create, market, and sell cheat programs.That's a tough call. Software to jailbreak your phone might fall under this category (Apple would certainly think so). An app that allows you to tether other devices to your phone (which AT&T prohibits) is another example. For your two examples ...
Would I be able to freely create, market, and sell programs that are specifically designed to hack bank accounts, ATMS, or other financial services? I'm not talking about a general program that could be used for that - I'm talking something designed/marketed specifically for the task.
That's already illegal. In the USA, it likely falls under Title 18 Section 2511.
Would I be able to freely create, market, and sell programs that cause gas station pumps to sell me gas for thirty cents a gallon instead of the normal $3.50? I could tell the gas station attendant that it's his job to run a secure system.
That's already illegal too; probably under the same set of laws. I don't see a new law needed here.
I don't care for parasites.
I hear you. Following the gist of what you're saying, the challenge is to distinguish a third-party or after-market product from a tool for fraud. The specific examples in the OP related to cheating in a game. The cheating relates to violating a TOS, not committing a crime. There's good behavior, bad behavior, and criminal behavior. The cheaters (and cheat peddlers) are annoying to be sure. But, I don't see law enforcement as an appropriate replacement for customer service.
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He isn't, however when there are a few players on a server that are, it makes the game no fun... A friend and I have been playing UT99 (the first one) Assault since it was released, over the last few months we've given up on the game as the servers are now full of cheats using aimbots, This has been a problem before, but before now the community modders have managed to detect and remove these cheats from the game, but the latest bots seems to be undetectable. So for a lot of players a fun challenging game has become pointless playing, because of a few cheats who can't play without computer assistance. You see the same thing on counterstrike and halflife deathmatch servers, players using radar who know you are hiding around corners etc, they are pretty obvious as they just walk around the corner and shoot straight at you, but they claim they are just 'better players'. It's a major problem in online gaming, and it would be nice if it could be dealt with somehow.
Storm-blade wrote:
ou see the same thing on counterstrike and halflife deathmatch servers, players using radar who know you are hiding around corners etc, they are pretty obvious as they just walk around the corner and shoot straight at you, but they claim they are just 'better players'.
I play HL2 quite a bit. I quite often get accused of hacking because it appears I walk round a corner and shoot someone, or get three headshots in a row, or whatever. I wouldn't know how to hack - I'm just a good, experienced player. I listen, I know places people often hide on maps, and I'm quick. It's apparent that some people do use hacks - but in my experience the best thing to do is just to leave the server they are on - assuming you know they are using hacks and it isn't just because they pwned you!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I would. What am I going to do, sue the authors of metasploit, aircrack or whatever was used? That doesn't even make sense. It's the user of that program that stole the money, not the author.
I'd like to introduce you to a legal concept: Its called 'accessory to a crime'. Its legal definition is very specific.. "An accessory is a person who assists in the commission of a crime, but who does not actually participate in the commission of the crime as a joint principal." Now.. with software it boils down to common usage. If the common usage isn't tailored to a criminal activity, (like for instance using Word to create a document which is used to threaten someone), then the software isn't related. This same argument goes for guns. Guns can kill people, but can be used to both prevent and assist criminal activity. So they don't have in their design a leaning one way or the other. By their very nature they are neutral actors. The same cannot be said of software who's only purpose is to assist criminals... Word is obviously a neutral software.. but software who's only purpose is to assist in hacking or cracking bank accounts or the like is not immune from this consideration, and the producers of it shouldn't be immune from prosecution (which they would be under your take.. as far as I can tell). Your original argument doesn't hold water.. because it doesn't take this into account.
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
Blame the developers. They should know by now, what types of hacks are going to be made... These games are sickly expensive. How hard is it really, to make it impossible for a bullet to go through a wall? It sounds REALLY EASY to make it IMPOSSIBLE. Battlefield sucks, and the people who made it suck. From programmer to programmer, they SUCKED and it's (almost) deserved that someone would teach them a lesson. Don't blame the curious smart people, blame the retards who coded the bullet trajectory code.
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Storm-blade wrote:
ou see the same thing on counterstrike and halflife deathmatch servers, players using radar who know you are hiding around corners etc, they are pretty obvious as they just walk around the corner and shoot straight at you, but they claim they are just 'better players'.
I play HL2 quite a bit. I quite often get accused of hacking because it appears I walk round a corner and shoot someone, or get three headshots in a row, or whatever. I wouldn't know how to hack - I'm just a good, experienced player. I listen, I know places people often hide on maps, and I'm quick. It's apparent that some people do use hacks - but in my experience the best thing to do is just to leave the server they are on - assuming you know they are using hacks and it isn't just because they pwned you!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
I quite often get accused of hacking because it appears I walk round a corner and shoot someone, or get three headshots in a row, or whatever.
Yes, this is quite normal, the difference is when a player comes around a corner facing into an alcove where another player is hiding, and shoots as soon as they are visable, and does it repeatedly in different locations, it becomes obvious it's not skill or luck.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
best thing to do is just to leave the server they are on
I agree, but when there are not many good servers for these older games, there is just nowhere else to go.
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I'm not sure yet. Meanwhile, guns are marketed as murder weapons, and that doesn't seem to be a problem.
I don't think they are marketed as 'Murder' weapons ("The all new peashooter 45, perfect to bump off the mother-in-law"), just as a tool for 'self defence' or hunting animals.
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Too harsh, I'm afraid. You see, they usually aren't causing much actual damage. They're just pissing a handful of people off for a bit, cause a couple of ragequits.. But they'll get over it. That's why your analogies are flawed - it's not an actual problem, it's more like promising people cake and then not giving it to them. And anyway, developing any kind of program should never be illegal. That's basically censorship and the tools aren't the problem - using them is.
harold aptroot wrote:
it's more like promising people cake and then not giving it to them.
I disagree - your analogy fails. The game developer should track and throw off, permanently, anyone using bots. The other players have paid for that game. By comparison, it would be like selling me cake, then allowing someone else to eat it before handing it to me. Jail is definitely too harsh, but bot developers should maybe face hefty fines - after all they are disrupting legitimate business activity. If the game developer hasn't taken reasonable precautions to prevent abuse, maybe they should be liable too. Gamers using such bots should simply be banned. Further,
harold aptroot wrote:
they usually aren't causing much actual damage
They could be - if a game gets to a point where new players are put off buying the game, they are disrupting a legitimate business.
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I'd like to introduce you to a legal concept: Its called 'accessory to a crime'. Its legal definition is very specific.. "An accessory is a person who assists in the commission of a crime, but who does not actually participate in the commission of the crime as a joint principal." Now.. with software it boils down to common usage. If the common usage isn't tailored to a criminal activity, (like for instance using Word to create a document which is used to threaten someone), then the software isn't related. This same argument goes for guns. Guns can kill people, but can be used to both prevent and assist criminal activity. So they don't have in their design a leaning one way or the other. By their very nature they are neutral actors. The same cannot be said of software who's only purpose is to assist criminals... Word is obviously a neutral software.. but software who's only purpose is to assist in hacking or cracking bank accounts or the like is not immune from this consideration, and the producers of it shouldn't be immune from prosecution (which they would be under your take.. as far as I can tell). Your original argument doesn't hold water.. because it doesn't take this into account.
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harold aptroot wrote:
it's more like promising people cake and then not giving it to them.
I disagree - your analogy fails. The game developer should track and throw off, permanently, anyone using bots. The other players have paid for that game. By comparison, it would be like selling me cake, then allowing someone else to eat it before handing it to me. Jail is definitely too harsh, but bot developers should maybe face hefty fines - after all they are disrupting legitimate business activity. If the game developer hasn't taken reasonable precautions to prevent abuse, maybe they should be liable too. Gamers using such bots should simply be banned. Further,
harold aptroot wrote:
they usually aren't causing much actual damage
They could be - if a game gets to a point where new players are put off buying the game, they are disrupting a legitimate business.
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I would think if you are posting on this site you are more interested in technology, algorithms, tools and such of either making apps or hacking them, irrelevant. If you are more interested in playing games than underlying technology may I suggest http://www.disney.com?
and this is the lounge. If you can't handle non-programming messages, can I suggest you stick to the other forums.
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I know where you coming from. I'm myself choosing to concentrate on the technical aspects of the issue rather than ethical. On one side there is a open source side of the coin where source should be open and if developer wants to hack-prove their game, they need spend some resources and do it. On the other hand I can understand frustration the developer and users feel when someone tinkers with their stuff. However by the same standard, when people are finding and exploring holes in the Windows, all the calls for ethical behavour are pointless, the only real solution is for Microsoft to fix the problem. I think there is no arguing that Windows today are safer and more stable than any other environment just because so many hackers for such a long time had a chance to explore it and because developer (Microsoft) took care of uncovered issues. I choose to look at the hackers as free, white box, high quality testers - by finding and exposing the problems, I think they only doing service for the developers, as public and unpleasant as it may be.
gstolarov wrote:
I think there is no arguing that Windows today are safer and more stable than any other environment
Splutters coffee into keyboard - you are kidding right? I like Windows, use and develop for it regularly, but if you seriously think it comes close to being as you describe, I'd never let you work on my servers.