I think Ubuntu is still not ready for the desktop ( and won't be any soon .... )
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Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote:
Soon after logging, the problems, started to appear.
1 - I needed to install python
2 - I needed to install TCL.
3 - I needed to install g++ ( for compiling ns-3 )
4- JAVA? No problem! In Win7 also you need to install it.
5- Adobe flash? I just installed it but after opening some tabs, Firefox started to freeze and in a rare time in Linux history ( :laugh: ) desktop vanished and after some HDD LED work, it logged out and showed me the login dialog!And you get those direct with windows? Do you mean an OEM pre-installed bloatware PC you just plug in and go? Even those I've never seen with such a developer-specific set of all interpreters possible arrangement.
Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote:
6 - I needed a notepad++ Linux equivalent. No chance!
And this is a "standard" Windows program available direct from the install DVD? Or did you inadvertently add the ++ to the end? If you don't like sublime, then try Geany - it's built using the same Scintilla libraries as Notepad++ is. Some even say it's better than N++.
Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote:
9 - Foxit Reader?
Uhmmm ... now let me see here ... http://www.foxitsoftware.com/downloads/ Yep, as I thought, Foxit has a "Desktop Linux" version in that dropdown!
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Yep, as I thought, Foxit has a "Desktop Linux" version in that dropdown!
Yes, it has download link, but there is nothing inside that combo for download. To be honest, i searched the web and found it on a file sharing service, but the main purpose of using Foxit ( tabbed PDF viewing ) was not available. Am i missing something? I don't know, So please let me know if there is such an application. After all, my whole point is, in Windows or Mac you do not need to know command line tools and options or need to install library X in order to get your job done. Almost everything is ready. For all above applications, all you need is just some clicks ( Next -> Next -> Finish ). I needed ns-3 for an academic purpose and i had no time learning TCL, python, etc.
Behzad
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Alright. Use gedit. It's built in, is tabbable, and does practically everything notepad++ does. Also it doesn't screw up line endings, so when you edit scripts, they'll *still* work.
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Yeah gedit is decent. That's what I generally use when I'm in a Linux environment. Not sure what you're taking a pop at there but Notepad++ preserves line endings as well.
Notepad++? Yeah, supposed to preserve line endings too. Gedit will actually 'clean' a file with Windows lines though, whereas ++ will preserve whatever you've got in there.
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Oh dear. It's not the same. Me want Mickey Soft. But fwee!
Once you learn the basics of Ubuntu and learn how to use the basic sudo and bash commands you will quickly learn to love Ubuntu sure it lacks support for many programs but this us coffee project and we are developers if your preferred language is c sharp then there is a great ide which honestly can't remember the name of it at the moment but is a great way for us to program .net apps within Ubuntu no wine needed
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Notepad++? Yeah, supposed to preserve line endings too. Gedit will actually 'clean' a file with Windows lines though, whereas ++ will preserve whatever you've got in there.
So it won't preserve them, then? That's no better than a Windows platform editor 'cleaning' Linux line endings and helpfully adding the \r for you. N++ will let you re-encode a file if you actually want that, but it doesn't change a file unless you ask it to.
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Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote:
6 - I needed a notepad++ Linux equivalent. No chance!
At this point, you deserve a "Clippy" to appear to help you. "Hi, it looks like you're trying to type a letter." You HAVE heard about Wine?
Behzad Sedighzadeh wrote:
You know, i think the whole philosophy behind current Linux development is wrong!
You're comparing it to an environment that has "the user is dumb and evil" as a philosophy. Force yourself to use it for a year, and come back. Aw, and do yourself a favor, install DSL instead of Ubuntu. You don't need the bloat, it's only there to make Windows-users more comfortable.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
It amazes me how often Linux advocates resort to telling users that the problem is with them rather than the system being unfriendly. Further, the community is in my experience prone to insulting new users - the "if you can't figure this out you're dumb" approach can only help alienate users.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Force yourself to use it for a year, and come back.
Exactly - not ready for a desktop OS yet.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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Once you learn the basics of Ubuntu and learn how to use the basic sudo and bash commands you will quickly learn to love Ubuntu sure it lacks support for many programs but this us coffee project and we are developers if your preferred language is c sharp then there is a great ide which honestly can't remember the name of it at the moment but is a great way for us to program .net apps within Ubuntu no wine needed
MonoDevelop. You can load a project built in Visual Studio directly, rebuild it with trifling modifications in most cases, and run it on Linux. Or-build a completely new Gtk interface for the business code.
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It amazes me how often Linux advocates resort to telling users that the problem is with them rather than the system being unfriendly. Further, the community is in my experience prone to insulting new users - the "if you can't figure this out you're dumb" approach can only help alienate users.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Force yourself to use it for a year, and come back.
Exactly - not ready for a desktop OS yet.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
So true. Linux people so often shoot themselves in the foot with the attitude problem. However, I think you are dead wrong about Linux being unready or unfriendly. :-O
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So it won't preserve them, then? That's no better than a Windows platform editor 'cleaning' Linux line endings and helpfully adding the \r for you. N++ will let you re-encode a file if you actually want that, but it doesn't change a file unless you ask it to.
It's a lot better actually; we don't have to write a bash script on Linux for use on windows, so standardised Unix lines are just fine. I guess if you wanted to transfer Python or Ruby scripts, Windows might nag you, but they would run. In short, Windows line endings will disable Linux scripts, but not vice versa, which is probably why Gedit doesn't default to leaving things alone.
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It's a lot better actually; we don't have to write a bash script on Linux for use on windows, so standardised Unix lines are just fine. I guess if you wanted to transfer Python or Ruby scripts, Windows might nag you, but they would run. In short, Windows line endings will disable Linux scripts, but not vice versa, which is probably why Gedit doesn't default to leaving things alone.
Incidentally, I'm not trying to diss ++. It's a good programme. For Windows.
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why? Here is the story : Today for setting up ns-3,i installed Ubuntu(through wubi) on my dev box ( Win 7 ) and spent all day inside it. Soon after logging, the problems, started to appear. 1 - I needed to install python 2 - I needed to install TCL. 3 - I needed to install g++ ( for compiling ns-3 ) 4- JAVA? No problem! In Win7 also you need to install it. 5- Adobe flash? I just installed it but after opening some tabs, Firefox started to freeze and in a rare time in Linux history ( :laugh: ) desktop vanished and after some HDD LED work, it logged out and showed me the login dialog! 6 - I needed a notepad++ Linux equivalent. No chance! 7- Process Explorer Equivalent? No chance! ( i found one but it wanted to download 61MB of software !!!! ) 8 - Gtalk? Yahoo Messenger? Still no chance! OK. I used Empathy, but it did not authenticated me to my yahoo account! :sigh: 9 - Foxit Reader? OK! The only tabbed applications in Linux are web browsers and Terminal window! So, no tabbed pdf viewer you can see there. 10 - I have another monitor attached to my laptop. I needed to assign the dashboard to my own preferred desktop. No Chance! :sigh: And the list goes on .... You know, i think the whole philosophy behind current Linux development is wrong! why? Because it has been prepared from a developer's perspective not an ordinary user who just wants to set up his environment and start to work. Maybe it works for some basic tasks like web surfing or word/image processing, but behind that, you are facing the terrible fact: you have to setup what ever you want by your hand and the most important is learning some scripting language ( python, bash, TCL, etc.). Ubuntu has tried to fix this problem with its own 'Ubuntu Software Center' and it is an awesome effort, but there is still plenty of work to be done. The user should not search the web for dependencies or libraries needed for certain application to get work. After all, i think the whole Linux culture should be changed because people out there, are not developer.
Behzad
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MonoDevelop. You can load a project built in Visual Studio directly, rebuild it with trifling modifications in most cases, and run it on Linux. Or-build a completely new Gtk interface for the business code.
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You can even edit and compile your application on Windows (with VS, SharpDevelop etc or just N++ and a command line compiler) and run it under Mono, in most cases (though not if you use a WPF front end if I remember right).
Never tried that. Sounds like a blast. Can also use MD for ANSI c++; nice feature is adding package references. Any -dev library package you've installed on your system will show up as available. Add with one click.
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Never tried that. Sounds like a blast. Can also use MD for ANSI c++; nice feature is adding package references. Any -dev library package you've installed on your system will show up as available. Add with one click.
My dad writes some .Net software (graphics and reporting that can work as a component and render to file) and he had a client using it on Mono with only minor problems (the drawing to bitmap was a bit crap in those days on Mono, might be fixed now, so the client had to generate .eps or other text based output formats). I've not tried it myself as I don't paddle in the Linux pool much except for work, where we have a Java project deployed there.
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My dad writes some .Net software (graphics and reporting that can work as a component and render to file) and he had a client using it on Mono with only minor problems (the drawing to bitmap was a bit crap in those days on Mono, might be fixed now, so the client had to generate .eps or other text based output formats). I've not tried it myself as I don't paddle in the Linux pool much except for work, where we have a Java project deployed there.
Nice. We use hybrid systems, so I have to do both.
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why? Here is the story : Today for setting up ns-3,i installed Ubuntu(through wubi) on my dev box ( Win 7 ) and spent all day inside it. Soon after logging, the problems, started to appear. 1 - I needed to install python 2 - I needed to install TCL. 3 - I needed to install g++ ( for compiling ns-3 ) 4- JAVA? No problem! In Win7 also you need to install it. 5- Adobe flash? I just installed it but after opening some tabs, Firefox started to freeze and in a rare time in Linux history ( :laugh: ) desktop vanished and after some HDD LED work, it logged out and showed me the login dialog! 6 - I needed a notepad++ Linux equivalent. No chance! 7- Process Explorer Equivalent? No chance! ( i found one but it wanted to download 61MB of software !!!! ) 8 - Gtalk? Yahoo Messenger? Still no chance! OK. I used Empathy, but it did not authenticated me to my yahoo account! :sigh: 9 - Foxit Reader? OK! The only tabbed applications in Linux are web browsers and Terminal window! So, no tabbed pdf viewer you can see there. 10 - I have another monitor attached to my laptop. I needed to assign the dashboard to my own preferred desktop. No Chance! :sigh: And the list goes on .... You know, i think the whole philosophy behind current Linux development is wrong! why? Because it has been prepared from a developer's perspective not an ordinary user who just wants to set up his environment and start to work. Maybe it works for some basic tasks like web surfing or word/image processing, but behind that, you are facing the terrible fact: you have to setup what ever you want by your hand and the most important is learning some scripting language ( python, bash, TCL, etc.). Ubuntu has tried to fix this problem with its own 'Ubuntu Software Center' and it is an awesome effort, but there is still plenty of work to be done. The user should not search the web for dependencies or libraries needed for certain application to get work. After all, i think the whole Linux culture should be changed because people out there, are not developer.
Behzad
What you've just said, is one of the most idiotic things i've ever heard... You don't know what you are talking about. 1. Python, TCL, and g++ are developers tools, where is the "user point of view" there? 2. A tabbed pdf viewer? Most users will be happy with just adobe reader, that the only thing they know, btw. I don't like ubuntu either, so don't think i'm attacking your opinion, i'm just attacking your arguments. Saludos!! ____ichr@mm :wq
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1-5 are the same in windows 6 - Gedit ( and Pimp my Gedit[^] 7- Top is good enough for me 8 - Pidgin If you would like a pre-setup system then you can either save an image or write scripts. It's not that big of a deal.
If it moves, compile it
Actually I agree with the OP with certain things. I am a Java dev, and think that: Ubuntu is not that user-friendly as some Linux users want it to be. Average user does not need to know how to sudo things: Instead, if "he" wanted to install something, a tool similar to Ubuntu Software Center should be used. Something user-friendly, without typing archaic things, with nice graphics and aesthetics. Install procedure: Already said. In Windows if you need to install something regular, you download the "installer", next next finish. In Ubuntu, it is much more complicated. (compiling things? really?) There are some customization issues also: That ugly bar (not talking about Kubuntu here) should be replaced, or replaceable if the user doesn't what it. The Ubuntu's "Control Panel" should be more user-friendly. There should be something equivalent to "Task Manager". I mean, should I open a f****** terminal and execute two or three commands to kill something that has crashed? Which by the way happens more often than expected (unstable set of applications, not entirely Ubuntu developers fault). Nautilus has some issues, not being capable of renaming files when doing two clicks, among others. Not supporting NTFS file system as a possible partition for the installation of the OS is something a bit far ahead from what the average user think about, that is just wrong. Well, now that I discharged myself, I feel a lot better. :doh: I love how Ubuntu is easier to set initially, with the drivers automatically installed (most of the time) rather than in W7 putting the fu**** disk for each device.
asdsda
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Actually I agree with the OP with certain things. I am a Java dev, and think that: Ubuntu is not that user-friendly as some Linux users want it to be. Average user does not need to know how to sudo things: Instead, if "he" wanted to install something, a tool similar to Ubuntu Software Center should be used. Something user-friendly, without typing archaic things, with nice graphics and aesthetics. Install procedure: Already said. In Windows if you need to install something regular, you download the "installer", next next finish. In Ubuntu, it is much more complicated. (compiling things? really?) There are some customization issues also: That ugly bar (not talking about Kubuntu here) should be replaced, or replaceable if the user doesn't what it. The Ubuntu's "Control Panel" should be more user-friendly. There should be something equivalent to "Task Manager". I mean, should I open a f****** terminal and execute two or three commands to kill something that has crashed? Which by the way happens more often than expected (unstable set of applications, not entirely Ubuntu developers fault). Nautilus has some issues, not being capable of renaming files when doing two clicks, among others. Not supporting NTFS file system as a possible partition for the installation of the OS is something a bit far ahead from what the average user think about, that is just wrong. Well, now that I discharged myself, I feel a lot better. :doh: I love how Ubuntu is easier to set initially, with the drivers automatically installed (most of the time) rather than in W7 putting the fu**** disk for each device.
asdsda
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why? Here is the story : Today for setting up ns-3,i installed Ubuntu(through wubi) on my dev box ( Win 7 ) and spent all day inside it. Soon after logging, the problems, started to appear. 1 - I needed to install python 2 - I needed to install TCL. 3 - I needed to install g++ ( for compiling ns-3 ) 4- JAVA? No problem! In Win7 also you need to install it. 5- Adobe flash? I just installed it but after opening some tabs, Firefox started to freeze and in a rare time in Linux history ( :laugh: ) desktop vanished and after some HDD LED work, it logged out and showed me the login dialog! 6 - I needed a notepad++ Linux equivalent. No chance! 7- Process Explorer Equivalent? No chance! ( i found one but it wanted to download 61MB of software !!!! ) 8 - Gtalk? Yahoo Messenger? Still no chance! OK. I used Empathy, but it did not authenticated me to my yahoo account! :sigh: 9 - Foxit Reader? OK! The only tabbed applications in Linux are web browsers and Terminal window! So, no tabbed pdf viewer you can see there. 10 - I have another monitor attached to my laptop. I needed to assign the dashboard to my own preferred desktop. No Chance! :sigh: And the list goes on .... You know, i think the whole philosophy behind current Linux development is wrong! why? Because it has been prepared from a developer's perspective not an ordinary user who just wants to set up his environment and start to work. Maybe it works for some basic tasks like web surfing or word/image processing, but behind that, you are facing the terrible fact: you have to setup what ever you want by your hand and the most important is learning some scripting language ( python, bash, TCL, etc.). Ubuntu has tried to fix this problem with its own 'Ubuntu Software Center' and it is an awesome effort, but there is still plenty of work to be done. The user should not search the web for dependencies or libraries needed for certain application to get work. After all, i think the whole Linux culture should be changed because people out there, are not developer.
Behzad
I guess it all depends on the needs of the user and how the OS supplies their needs. If you still dependent on Windows apps and workflow to work, then you will need it and what comes with it. As a programmer I have been able to replace large amounts of my workflow with Linux, and I still depend on Win for other needs. If you are used to using Visual Studio, you are not going to be happy with Linux. I do not develop native Windows apps - so that is why my workflow is different. I have turned on many people who use their PC's for consumption only, onto Linux Mint or Ubuntu and they are very happy. Not everyone is a programmer. They can not mess it up very easy, especially if they have no use for the command line. I get less help calls, than I do with torched Win installs from the people I know. Every one is different as are their needs.
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What you've just said, is one of the most idiotic things i've ever heard... You don't know what you are talking about. 1. Python, TCL, and g++ are developers tools, where is the "user point of view" there? 2. A tabbed pdf viewer? Most users will be happy with just adobe reader, that the only thing they know, btw. I don't like ubuntu either, so don't think i'm attacking your opinion, i'm just attacking your arguments. Saludos!! ____ichr@mm :wq
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1. Python, TCL, and g++ are developers tools, where is the "user point of view" there?
Yeah, exactly, why i should download some developers tools in order to run an application? :doh: You have just highlighted what i'am trying to say.
Behzad