Please fire the person in Microsoft that thought the charms thing is ok
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It might surprise you, but it is possible to dislike the OS for other reasons than inexperience. Also, I have yet to see any advantages of the new UI, even after finding out how to do things. How are the new ways to do stuff actually better, instead of only different? Difference only for the sake of difference is not exactly what I look for in a new version of an OS or other software. I can put up with a lot of learning time if there is something to be gained, I even learned to like the ribbon design in office quite a lot. But if the UX is changed heavily, I'd like it to actually make sense beyond "now we don't have to make different versions for tablets and desktops". Also, I'd like the company to consider cases like non-fullscreen, laggy RDP connections before implementing a UI in a server OS where I have to put the cursor on some precise pixel in the corner to open up menus because Windows key shortcuts don't work in that case.
Agree 100% on "I have to put the cursor on some precise pixel in the corner to open up menus because Windows key shortcuts don't work in that case."
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Correct. I love Windows 7 and I still have a few VMs in Windows XP. Both great. Vista = total flop. Win 8 = not yet a flop but dancing on the edge. Users have changed over the years. Microsoft cannot just pull the trick of forcing people to do what they think is right. Users have learned that systems adapt to them, not the other way round.
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I think why everyone is upset is that they are learning that systems wont adapt to them any more. When what they ask for isn't possible while listening to how they want it - the user gets silenced.
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My 24 inch screen is more than an arms length away, because of its size. It is not touch, but if it was I would not be able to reach it. Also, have you heard Gorilla arm? And last but not least, how much time do you lose raising your hand and using it both on the screen and mouse? Not very efficient.
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My efficiency went up ten fold with the use of touch screens. The efficiency went up to all of my real estate agents that also use touch. It gets results, opinions beyond that are kind of invalid.
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I disagree on the inexperience. It is not about "it is possible" or "it is meant to use it this way". What counts is: #1-) Is it easy to use, intuitive and clear (no, to the point that it is confusing on the dual mode) #2-) Clear action = reaction (no, unless you are a ninja mouse master)
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My 80 year old grandpa gets it - never got any other OS. that proves both your points invalid.
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I think why everyone is upset is that they are learning that systems wont adapt to them any more. When what they ask for isn't possible while listening to how they want it - the user gets silenced.
You are wrong. If Microsoft won't adapt to the user, some other company will and MS will keep going down. Don't get me wrong, I am an MS and I love Windows above OS X (I use both), but MS needs to be humble enough to recognize the need to adapt to users or die. (albeit they have too much momentum, it will take years but it will happen if they don't adapt)
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My 80 year old grandpa gets it - never got any other OS. that proves both your points invalid.
Colborne: Do you own stock at MS?
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Colborne: Do you own stock at MS?
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no
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You are wrong. If Microsoft won't adapt to the user, some other company will and MS will keep going down. Don't get me wrong, I am an MS and I love Windows above OS X (I use both), but MS needs to be humble enough to recognize the need to adapt to users or die. (albeit they have too much momentum, it will take years but it will happen if they don't adapt)
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Windows 8 and windows phone 8 continue to gain market share and have yet to have a downward trend.
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I can see how there are a lot of things currently in the UI that don't work the way they are suppose to and affect the user experience, listening to the user at this point is just allowing the user to have creative input into the program not really addressing the issue and potentially road blocking the greatness that will come out of this UI if windows moves backwards.
Agreed. Moving backwards is not a viable solution. MS needs to work on better alternatives instead. As pointed out in a different posting, the vision that led to W8 is a good one - it's just the current implementation that is lacking. That said, I do hope they drop the idea of a unified UI: a screen layout that works well on a 4 inch smartphone touch screen will never scale up well to a 24 inch desktop non-touch screen, no matter how many resources MS invests into that goal. They should instead split up the "View" in the MVC model into a "Scene", which describes the visuals in a more abstract way, and several "Viewports" with different capabilities that render the current Scene depending on their individual capabilities (such as resolution, screen size, touch-capability, 3D-capability, refresh rate, and the like). This would greatly help in programming applications that run on different devices, while still catering to the usage patterns of each individual device.
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Agreed. Moving backwards is not a viable solution. MS needs to work on better alternatives instead. As pointed out in a different posting, the vision that led to W8 is a good one - it's just the current implementation that is lacking. That said, I do hope they drop the idea of a unified UI: a screen layout that works well on a 4 inch smartphone touch screen will never scale up well to a 24 inch desktop non-touch screen, no matter how many resources MS invests into that goal. They should instead split up the "View" in the MVC model into a "Scene", which describes the visuals in a more abstract way, and several "Viewports" with different capabilities that render the current Scene depending on their individual capabilities (such as resolution, screen size, touch-capability, 3D-capability, refresh rate, and the like). This would greatly help in programming applications that run on different devices, while still catering to the usage patterns of each individual device.
I am using two 40 inch screens with wireless gestures. As a programmer in windows 8.1 I never have to worry about scalability it solves that issue so easily
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Also Outlook 2013, when you have the reading pane enabled. Instead of showing you the content of the email message (what Outlook is presumably all about), shows you a huge header about the sender and their status. Going back to Rajesh's post, I've long held that software which can't get the little things right likely does not get the big things right. I think Win 8 qualifies. Take an OS which worked perfrectly fine for the majority of non-touchscreen users, and force them to pretend their device is a touchscreen. Grrrr!
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Win + C in my environment doesn't work. There is a Citrix in the middle and a lot of other complicated stuff, basically for security :)
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Bummer then.
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I agree. Their UI designs have been ranging from weird to downright unintuitive since about a while now. Ribbons (controversial, but I despise it), removal of start button (WTF), SCREAMING MENU ITEMS in VS, the colour scheme of VS (makes my eyes bleed), and things like what you pointed out. Someone at MS really hasn't taken into account that it's the small things that matter.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
I agree with you completely. BTW there's a way to revert the VS 2012 menus to regular capitalization: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/zainnab/archive/2012/06/14/turn-off-the-uppercase-menu-in-visual-studio-2012.aspx
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I hear people say Win 8 isn't bad, it's good once you get used to it... bla bla bla. :doh: Well, I'm still unconvinced and still happy with Win 7
I tried to like Win8. Came on a new notebook. Gave up when some programs wouldn't run in Win8. Put Win7 on. Good luck trying to find the Win7 drivers for a machine "designed specially for Windows 8"! Yes, it uses components that are Win7 compatible, but there's no explicit support for Win7, as if they couldn't have predicted the backlash. Sure, you can still find new notebooks with Win7, but the specs aren't the best.
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I agree with you completely. BTW there's a way to revert the VS 2012 menus to regular capitalization: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/zainnab/archive/2012/06/14/turn-off-the-uppercase-menu-in-visual-studio-2012.aspx
Thank you, that will make it a lot better. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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Windows 8 and windows phone 8 continue to gain market share and have yet to have a downward trend.
And by gain market share you mean that it is even worse than Vista? http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-continues-to-fail-7000016222/[^] I have a Windows Phone sitting nicely in my desk. I use my iPhone instead as it is more user friendly. I do develop in Windows and think it is great. They just messed it up with this one in particular.
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And by gain market share you mean that it is even worse than Vista? http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-continues-to-fail-7000016222/[^] I have a Windows Phone sitting nicely in my desk. I use my iPhone instead as it is more user friendly. I do develop in Windows and think it is great. They just messed it up with this one in particular.
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Anything that someone does not know how to use is less user friendly. No old age population finds iphones friendly, but windows 8 continues to be picked up by people that have never had a cell phone, and comment if it wasn't for windows 8 I would never get into technology.
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Anything that someone does not know how to use is less user friendly. No old age population finds iphones friendly, but windows 8 continues to be picked up by people that have never had a cell phone, and comment if it wasn't for windows 8 I would never get into technology.
And here you go again with a misconception. You write: "Anything that someone does not know how to use is less user friendly." But instead it should be something like: "Anything that is not intuitive enough for someone that does not know how to use it, and if feels unnatural to learn is less user friendly." I think the last sentence was not user friendly. I like better "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" :) Case in point: my 2 year old toddler works the iPad up and down like an extension of her arm. Gave her the my Surface and Galaxy and she basically just asked for the iPad. And not because she is a toddler. This is common on all ages when introduced to technology.
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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And here you go again with a misconception. You write: "Anything that someone does not know how to use is less user friendly." But instead it should be something like: "Anything that is not intuitive enough for someone that does not know how to use it, and if feels unnatural to learn is less user friendly." I think the last sentence was not user friendly. I like better "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" :) Case in point: my 2 year old toddler works the iPad up and down like an extension of her arm. Gave her the my Surface and Galaxy and she basically just asked for the iPad. And not because she is a toddler. This is common on all ages when introduced to technology.
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
If you already learn a way of doing something as long as you are faced with a device that is different then the way you are used to - you will be confronted with what you think is bullshit.
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If you already learn a way of doing something as long as you are faced with a device that is different then the way you are used to - you will be confronted with what you think is bullshit.
You are getting too poetic :)
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