C# - just making an observation

[Andy Brummer]

I have to say I like writing my own apps in C# where I have complete control of all the code and data types. However when I'm customizing an existing CMS platform, the flexibility of duck typing means that I have much more flexibility and power to make smaller and less invasive changes, even if I have to code in PHP :sigh: .

Curvature of the Mind now with 3D

[Lost User]

OriginalGriff wrote:

a lot harder to get leaky programs

I disagree. When you're programming in something that demands you manage your own memory, you tend to be very aware of leaks, and program more carefully. Many a C# programmer just assumes that it will be handled for them, and happily leave event handlers waving in the wind, preventing megabytes being cleaned up. Not me, of course, but others :-O

PooperPig - Coming Soon

[Jeremy Falcon]

What you're saying is totally true, but I'd still wager an expert at C/C++/ASM could still write code to outperform most things in .NET. Of course, that's not practical for every last application as they'd have to be leery of frameworks used, if any, such as STL. I mean I can write a slow program in C easy as pie, and probably make something run better in classic VB if I really wanted to. Doesn't mean classic VB is the way to go for real time code. It doesn't mean VB is quicker. It means I'd know VB better in that instance. All that being said, I sure don't enjoy the slow compile times for C++. Especially with some of newer compiler tricks with C++ 11, such as generics. But it's still pretty zippy once compiled, and C/C++ will always be my go-to language for non-business apps.

Jeremy Falcon

[Jeremy Falcon]

Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

DataSets and DataTables

Oh I like it when you talk dirty Pete.

Jeremy Falcon

[Mycroft Holmes]

I think VBA is where you can lay the most blame, power users who work up through the VBA/Access route and keep going. No real discipline and no training. I started out that way and can understand the mind set, I do miss the formal training and grounding most really good devs must have. I started with macros in the late 80s then went down the path of Superbase till it got completely marginalised, spent a couple of years doing Turbo Pascal and then moved to VB. I would not willingly go back to VB.net but only for comfort and familiarity not because I dislike the language.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH

[Lost User]

Yup, pretty much a new language. Used well it is very elegant and I've found it refreshing and enjoyable.

[Pete OHanlon]

Friends don't let friends ORM.

[OriginalGriff]

_Maxxx_ wrote:

When you're a competent programmer is programming in something that demands you manage your own memory, you tend to be very aware of leaks, and program more carefully.

Unfortunately, a large number of developers aren't competent, but think they are.

Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...

[BillWoodruff]

I'd really enjoy hearing your thoughts on the down-side of 'var. thanks, Bill

«OOP to me means only messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things. »  Alan Kay's clarification on what he meant by the term "Object" in "Object-Oriented Programming."

[BillWoodruff]

I'd really enjoy hearing your thoughts on the down-side of 'var. thanks, Bill

«OOP to me means only messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things. »  Alan Kay's clarification on what he meant by the term "Object" in "Object-Oriented Programming."

[BillWoodruff]

I'd really enjoy hearing your thoughts on the down-side of 'var. thanks, Bill

«OOP to me means only messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things. »  Alan Kay's clarification on what he meant by the term "Object" in "Object-Oriented Programming."

[OriginalGriff]

var is necessary - it's hard to see how Linq could work without it - and yes, it's still strongly typed. But...it's lazy, and it promotes code that is harder to read - for the sake of saving a couple of seconds when you write the code. For example, what is this code doing:

foreach (var item in myList)
{
...
}

What type is item? I don't know - so I have to go elsewhere, find the definition of myList and work it out from there. And then I find that myList is declared as

var myList = myUserControlInADifferentAssembly.GetAll(userInput);

Which means I have to hunt that down as well. If instead the original coder had spent a couple of seconds writing:

foreach (UserProfile item in myList)
{
...
}

My concentration wouldn't be broken and I could keep on with the flow of the code. I've seen people write this:

var i = 0;

Which is spectacularly pointless! There is also the fun that if a var is an IEnumerable returned by Linq methods, it isn't obvious that using it twice in successive lines of code will re-evaluate the whole enumerable again! At least if you have to write the type in full, you get a clue that probably what you should be doing is converting it to a List to evaluate the IEnumerable! You don't get that from var because "the system just handles it for you" - in the same way that untyped Dim works in VB, and that always comes back to bite people! :laugh: For example:

    private string Showme(string s)
        {
        Console.WriteLine(s);
        return s;
        }

If you do this:

        List list = new List() { "hello", "there", "Paul" };
        var enumerable = list.Where(s => s != "c").Select(s => Showme(s));
        Console.WriteLine("111111");
        string s1 = string.Join(";", enumerable);
        Console.WriteLine("222222");
        string s2 = string.Join(";", enumerable);
        Console.WriteLine("333333");

It isn't obvious that you get this:

111111
hello
there
Paul
222222
hello
there
Paul
333333

But as a List it is evaluated once:

        List list = new List() { "hello", "there", "Paul" };
        var enumerable = list.Where(s => s != "c").Select(s => Showme(s)).ToList();
        Console.WriteLine("111111");
        string s1 = string.Joi

[Ian Shlasko]

No no no no.... Unity 3D... The game development IDE...

Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)

[Dan Neely]

I've got them blighting up one of my winform apps. The worst bit is there's not even a real DB involved. :omg: They were the easiest way to get something with databinding to a grid working (at this point I don't recall exactly what); and in prototype the version of the backend that read/processed the xml data files with tables was moderately faster and had significantly less total code than the one that read it all into classes and handled it that way. After the testers finished finding every edge case I'd overlooked when playing with it the latter was definitely no longer the case and the code was a massive cluster elephant as well. :doh:

Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

[Dan Neely]

Limit yourself to the subset that Cython[^] can compile to C? A friend of mine swears by it for the intermediate level code where the python prototype isn't fast enough but which isn't worth the heavy lifting needed to write in raw cache aware C to scavenge every last cpu cycle.

Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

[Albert Holguin]

Was wondering about that... it didn't make sense but I've also never heard of Unity 3D. :-O

[Ian Shlasko]

I haven't actually managed to make anything playable with it, but that's because I aimed a little too high... Like... Alpha Centauri... But I wrote a hex-map model and generator in C#/Unity, and it worked really well... It makes the graphical side really easy. One of these days I'll go back to that... But once I started planning out the AI, I realized I had designed it so complicated that it'd make Black and White look like Tetris by comparison.

Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)

[Jeremy Falcon]

Mycroft Holmes wrote:

I think VBA is where you can lay the most blame, power users who work up through the VBA/Access route and keep going. No real discipline and no training. I started out that way and can understand the mind set, I do miss the formal training and grounding most really good devs must have.

Oh man don't get me started on people using VBA inside Access to make a "real program". Totally get your point. But like you said, a good dev never stops learning and undergoes a lot of training about how things really work.

Jeremy Falcon

[Forogar]

Quote:

I just hope that M$ changes its mind and releases a VB7. Native, updated VB6.

Bad news - it's not going to happen. Have you tried C++? I use that when I want the down to the metal, tiny, high-performance stuff (or native C if really pushed).

- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.

[dandy72]

(Old thread, but I'm just catching up now) I've earned a living as a C++ developer for a dozen years or so before moving on to C# over 7 years ago. I haven't looked back. Well, I have looked at some of my old C++ code a couple of times, and the thought I have every single time is that I don't miss it at all.