(Again) Visual Basic.NET Exceeded C# Popularity in TIOBE in October 2018 And it is Raising

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter

I'm probably one of those unfortunate that had a manager who felt an urge to develop enterprise level in VB... From your post I can conclude you are not in the same boat... The day you will be curious enough to check how TIOBE's index built, you will understand how it is useless and on the same day you will understand how VB is limited...

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018

Minion no 5

Popular with non-programmers.

Sander Rossel

OriginalGriff wrote:

It still has On Error Resume Next - so it's still garbage.

Which is really just the same as:

try
{
throw new Exception();
}
catch {}

Perfectly valid (and seen) in C#. Please tell me how this makes C# garbage :D

Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly

Sander Rossel

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:

From your post I can conclude you are not in the same boat my manager...

FTFY :laugh:

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:

you will understand how VB is limited

It's pretty much the same as C# though. Although lately it hasn't been given the same attention as C#. It works the same for .NET, but I don't even think .NET Core supports VB. As far as I'm concerned that's Microsoft telling us VB is still supported, but not further developed. Anyway, that's not really the language's fault...

Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly

OriginalGriff

No, it isn't. It's the same as saying:

void MyMethod()
{
try { ALineOfCode(); } catch{}
try { AnotherLineOfCode(); } catch{}
try { AndAnotherLineOfCode(); } catch{}
try { YetAnotherLineOfCode(); } catch{}
try { NextLineOfCode(); } catch{}
try { YetMoreLineOfCode(); } catch{}
try { EvenNowALineOfCode(); } catch{}
try { EvenNowAnotherLineOfCode(); } catch{}
}

And if you saw that on a code review you'd start swearing! :laugh: Worse, it propagates through subfunctions until another On Error is met - so you may never know that your code failed a hundred calls deep. It just continues as if the error line had not existed until it becomes totally impossible to ignore by which time the actual source of the error well and truly forgotten; the method may not even be in the call stack any more! And by then your DB is horribly corrupt ...

Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

Sander Rossel

I've seen pretty much exactly that at one of the companies I worked at. Ok, it wasn't every line of code, but every method at least (and sometimes multiple per method). And yes, it was VB.NET (but no On Error Resume Next, it only had a few of those) :sigh: And you're right about the swearing part :laugh:

Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly

OriginalGriff

Yeah - it's the equivalent of saying "my code works because it has no compiler errors" and walking away. :laugh:

Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640 Never throw anything away, Griff Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay... AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

Sander Rossel

You're saying that like there's an alternative ;p My credo in software development is "if it compiles, ship it!"

Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly

georani

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote:

...you will understand how VB is limited...

You assertion is a lie. C# and VB.NET are equivalent languages!! See: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]
Sorry to use large fonts, but I guess you did not read it the first time :-D

georani

Minion no. 5 wrote:

Popular with non-programmers.

C# language is at the #6 position in that index, Java #1, Python #4... they are not programmers? Tiobe Index is the most popular comparator of programming languages on the internet, it is cited by thousands of magazines and articles in many years.

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter

Lexical part of the language is not all makes it a language... Try this in English:

Tavon a lúd átúsz, visszaúsz meg átúsz.

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018

georani

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

Of course it is popular; everyone can be a programmer with VB

With C# too, with Python too (#4 position in Tiobe index) ... Everyone can be a programmer with (put your preferred language here). Bad argument.

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

In other news, over 50% of projects fail.

Source?

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

Your move :cool:

Done.

Lost User

georani wrote:

Bad argument.

No, an old and valid one, and proven at that; most programmers that started as hobbyists used VB; a language that encourages bad constructs and minimizes the stuff the user has to know.

georani wrote:

Source?

Google it yourself, it is not like it is a secret.

georani wrote:

Done.

Make it serious, or don't attempt another one.

Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^] "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

georani

Sander Rossel wrote:

but I don't even think .NET Core supports VB.

Please see it: .NET Core 2.1 downloads for Linux, macOS, and Windows[^]

Released 10/2/2018

Release notes:

Supports C# 7.3

Supports F# 4.5

**Supports Visual Basic 15.5**

Sander Rossel wrote:

Microsoft telling us VB is still supported, but not further developed.

You are wrong, please see this: .NET Core 3 and Support for Windows Desktop Applications (Winforms and WPF) | .NET Blog[^]

Article excerpt:

C#, F# and VB already work with .NET Core 2.0. You will be able to build desktop applications with any of those three languages with .NET Core 3.

dandy72

georani wrote:

VB.NET is like C# but a bit more verbose and almost like natural English, so anyone can understand VB.NET code.

I always say that's a terrible analogy as spoken language has many nuances that a reader can only understand if provided enough context. You can write something useful with a programming language within a few days or even hours--minutes in some cases. You need weeks, if not months or even years, to become proficient with a spoken language. If that's how VB.NET's defenders choose to extol its virtues, then they're starting off on the wrong foot. I want my programming languages to clearly reflect the writer's intent without any guesswork. Comparing it with English is not how to sell a programming language to a developer. That's called dumbing it down to help those people not working in this field understand what's being discussed.

Sander Rossel · Released 10/2/2018

Ok, so VB is or wasn't supported for .NET Core 1.x, Portable Framework, Unity, some Azure functionality... It seems VB always comes last for Microsoft, if at all. And then sometimes, someone, like you, comes along who loves VB and promises to make it all better and it gets a little bit better only for VB to fall behind again. Yeah, VB was my first language and as such it has a special place in my heart, but I wouldn't recommend VB as a career path for anyone. Programmers aren't using it, employers aren't asking for it. It only, somehow, has a high position in a weird TIOBE index.

Best, Sander sanderrossel.com Continuous Integration, Delivery, and Deployment arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript Object-Oriented Programming in C# Succinctly

georani

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

started as hobbyists used VB; a language that encourages bad constructs and minimizes the stuff the user has to know.

It is a lie, You're confounding Classic VB (1998, 20 years old language) with VB.NET (an C# equivalent language). See by yourself: VB.NET and C# Comparison (2016)[^]

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

Google it yourself, it is not like it is a secret.

I did it, I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.

Eddy Vluggen wrote:

Make it serious, or don't attempt another one.

Done.

Dave Kreskowiak

georani wrote:

I have found not articles about 50% of VB.NET projects fails, again you are lying.

No, he said 50% of "PROJECTS" fail, not "50% of VB.NET projects". And that statistic is true, though the number is not dead on accurate. Study: 68 percent of IT projects fail | ZDNet[^] 21 Shocking Project Management Statistics That Cost Business Owners Millions Each Year[^] When are you going to learn to read, without bias?

Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak

Dave Kreskowiak

They are equivalent in the sense that they both target the .NET Framework. They are NOT statement-for-statement equivalent. Read Comparison of C Sharp and Visual Basic .NET - Wikipedia[^] There are features of both languages that you cannot use or find an equivalent for in the other.

Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles.
Dave Kreskowiak

georani

Dave Kreskowiak wrote:

They are equivalent in the sense that they both target the .NET Framework.

Not only this, They are equivalent in the sense that they both can do the same things with equivalent (almost) amount of code (amount of lines).