What If
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Trollslayer wrote:
I know because I work on them
Yes there are many different kinds of settop boxes. Lot of them embed the Opera browser and allow developers to use JavaScript.
My point is that is for the top ten percent or so of the software in the unit.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^] "Program as if the technical support department is full of serial killers and they know your home address" - Ray Cassick Jr., RIP
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What would be the problem with that, if what we are talking about is Windows 8 desktop development? Suppose Microsoft made available a JavaScript library that works on other browsers, but is obviously going to be slower for certain features (e.g., 3D stuff). At least, I don't see how that's any worse than what we have today. You get a good development experience and performance on Windows, and you get interoperability with other platforms (though with reduced performance). That even adds one bonus... you only have to implement it once and you only have to know one language (JavaScript).
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
you only have to implement it once and you only have to know one language (JavaScript).
Ah, desktop. Got it. Forgot about that part of the question. OK, look at what's out there already, for example, Gt. Is it really platform agnostic? Now, what about databases? I can guarantee you that not everyone is going to use MySql (or whatever it's called now). I've developed a middle tier that works with both Oracle and SQL Server, and OMG, there are some extremely annoying differences. How long has it taken for SQL Server to finally support sequences?!?!?! Oracle has a 32 character limitation on table and field names!?!?!? Etc. So even if you make a language and framework agnostic set, there are serious considerations with interfacing with third party stuff. And lastly, you know how you can tell whenever someone has used Java for an application? It just doesn't look the same as the rest of your Windows apps. And it certainly doesn't look like a Mac app. IMO, there's something to be said for a standard look and feel that users of a particular platform get used to, which you lose with so-called write-once run-everywhere applications. Marc
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It's more of a combination of your hypothetical and the OP's sentiment. It feels a step backwards to basically change VS to work with Java/HTML and call .NET via a library, if I'm interpreting your post correctly. I should clarify what I meant by my "No" now; I would just stop using VS. If MS moved away from .NET towards JS, I would join the exodus from VS. I will clarify, when I read this: Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? I assumed you meant using VS.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
modified on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:52 AM
I know you are trying to augment your opinion about the HTML + JavaScript (this Harley Davidson and Malboro Man couple of coding), but you can't use exodus when you are referring only to yourself. Exodus means a mass departure. If you take me with you (as I share your feelings) then maybe we can call it exodus. :D
giuchici
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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Gerbil got it good: http://www.codeproject.com/Lounge.aspx?msg=3925537#xx3925537xx[^] Generally I don't feel like what you described is a step in the right direction.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Javascript isn't designed for heavy lifting
Someone should really break this news to the guys who designed the Indian Railways website.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
No. I would stick with Windows 7, and prepare for a transfer to Linux. And WTF would happen to the computer game industry? Noo... If they kill the ordinary shell in Windows 8, I'm just going to run Ubuntu. Or Mint. And program for said OSes only.
Don't forget to rate my post if it helped! ;) "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends." "His mother should have thrown him away, and kept the stork." "There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure." "He loves nature, in spite of what it did to him."
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It's more of a combination of your hypothetical and the OP's sentiment. It feels a step backwards to basically change VS to work with Java/HTML and call .NET via a library, if I'm interpreting your post correctly. I should clarify what I meant by my "No" now; I would just stop using VS. If MS moved away from .NET towards JS, I would join the exodus from VS. I will clarify, when I read this: Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? I assumed you meant using VS.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
modified on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:52 AM
wizardzz wrote:
If MS moved away from .NET towards Java, I would exodus from MS.
The question was about JavsScript, not Java. They already tried Java once before, and we all know how that turned out!
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
My initial reaction would be "eum...no" A more reasoned response would be "heeeell no!" And then I'ld realise that ex-.net devs would be moving to other languages on mass, as it seems nobody here wants to do "native" html/js. Upon seeing that, I'ld probably suck it up and become an expert in it and waaay overcharge hour rates. :P But all this is pretty void of meaning and a pointless exercise. For the simple reason that .NET and xaml based technology ain't going anywhere. Just because html5 support is added to win8 doesn't mean support will be removed for other languages. That's ridiculous. People need to ask themselves WHY the win8 presentation was done and why it was done at that particular time (just days before the apple event). It's painfully obvious: msft wanted some buzz. And you can't get buzz without the addition of a few buzzwords like "standards, cloud, html5, tablet, ARM" You know... all the (grossly overhyped) things the "trendy" people find important these days. I don't care in the slightest. .NET and XAML ain't going anywhere and will obviously be first class citizens in win8's "immersive app" concept. The Jupiter project is even said to add a XAML layer to C++... What more do you need to know about MSFT's stance on XAML?
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I know you are trying to augment your opinion about the HTML + JavaScript (this Harley Davidson and Malboro Man couple of coding), but you can't use exodus when you are referring only to yourself. Exodus means a mass departure. If you take me with you (as I share your feelings) then maybe we can call it exodus. :D
giuchici
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wizardzz wrote:
If MS moved away from .NET towards Java, I would exodus from MS.
The question was about JavsScript, not Java. They already tried Java once before, and we all know how that turned out!
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What would be the problem with that, if what we are talking about is Windows 8 desktop development? Suppose Microsoft made available a JavaScript library that works on other browsers, but is obviously going to be slower for certain features (e.g., 3D stuff). At least, I don't see how that's any worse than what we have today. You get a good development experience and performance on Windows, and you get interoperability with other platforms (though with reduced performance). That even adds one bonus... you only have to implement it once and you only have to know one language (JavaScript).
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
I am almost offended by calling JavaScript a language. It has little structure or syntax and is almost completely unmaintainable by anyone except the one who originally wrote the code. I can't imagine being completely dependant on this mess for LOB applications. I have to try to maintain JS code daily and daily I curse the devs who came before me.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
Hopefully most will say NO as this kind of move would be just another attempt to further restict options for those outside of the inside industry. Its about limiting users choices and options although here it would be more developer centric. Just as with the push to the cloud the end goal to is to further restrict and limit the options/choices/flexability of users and those who provide for users such as developers.
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and what if it was called Visual js# :)
Ha ha ha ha, that's a cool name :-D I would also say NO!!!! What is the gain from switching to a more complex and error prone language like Java Script :confused:
Thank you Mohammed A. Fadil
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
Congrats, you made the Insider with this one.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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True, proper wording would be "join the exodus" I'll edit my post.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
JavaScript is a fairly easy language to jump into and it's sorta loose data-type handling (in my opinion) make things even easier. So, Yes. I think it would be awesome if Visual Studio had some built in library that would give JavaScript the same kind of power as a language like C#...
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">AspDotNetDev wrote:</div>What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward?</blockquote>
AspDotNetDev wrote:
Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then?
jesus fucking christ no. If the rumours are true, I will probably kill myself and go back to using UNIX based systems like Ubuntu or some shit (after I was resurrected, of course).
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No. I would stick with Windows 7, and prepare for a transfer to Linux. And WTF would happen to the computer game industry? Noo... If they kill the ordinary shell in Windows 8, I'm just going to run Ubuntu. Or Mint. And program for said OSes only.
Don't forget to rate my post if it helped! ;) "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends." "His mother should have thrown him away, and kept the stork." "There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure." "He loves nature, in spite of what it did to him."
dawmail333 wrote:
And WTF would happen to the computer game industry?
That's why I mentioned the hypothetical 3D library support for canvas. :) Some fairly impressive stuff can be done in Chrome with the canvas today: 10 examples (my favorite)
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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Still, let's not make plans for that yet. I don't know where my flint is. Anyways, ... Hey! thread author: Can you stop giving those people ideas?
giuchici
They couldn't stop the atomic bomb, they can't stop the JavaScript bomb! :rolleyes:
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.